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Post by folsomppe on Apr 20, 2024 10:57:24 GMT -6
Lots of smoke about McCarthy going to Washington. Patriots could very well go Maye, and then its either trade up for Daniels or wait on Penix
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Post by dougpaschal on Apr 20, 2024 11:00:40 GMT -6
Besides Dobbs isn't very good. I think he can be an excellent backup. Last year he was put into an impossible situation
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 20, 2024 14:21:51 GMT -6
I think KOC would excel and enjoy bending his scheme for a guy like Daniels. The only evidence I have heard referred to that he can not or isn't willing was the Dobbs stint. That is a faulty argument that was thrown out on this board. NFL offenses are to complicated to make major overhauls midseason. Especially with a new guy that is just learning the playbook language. Hard enough to get Dobbs up to speed it would have been impossible to teach a new system to all the other offensive players to incorporate Dobbs. Besides Dobbs isn't very good. The thing is he needed to dumb down the system for Dobbs and he did not. Their best chance to move forward and get a WC spot was to dumb things down and make it work for Dobbs. Dobbs is a super smart guy, but he needed some kind of RPO thing to really get the value out of him. KOC tried to make Dobbs adjust to his system in midseason which was the harder ask. Once they went to Mullens they were pretty much throwing in the towel. Why even trade for Dobbs? KOC did a nice job for a couple weeks spoon feeding Dobbs, but as time went on he let other teams adjust and did not counter it. It is very obvious to me KOC has a system and wants to run that system. Stem routes and crap are all basic in the NFL so it would not have been that hard to simplify what they were doing with the receivers. Everyone says to hard to change the offense mid season, well its easier to dumb the damn thing down to work with the QB then to try and fit a square peg in a round hole.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 20, 2024 16:20:58 GMT -6
They traded for Dobbs because Mullens was hurt Hall had suffered a concussion and they needed a QB to start.
So while trying to coach up a rookie and teach Dobbs the basic offense (just how to call plays) KOC was supposed to change the offense. WOW.
We won a game where they communicated pre snap. Yet somehow KOC 'loves his system and is inflexible' because he didn't get a new system in for Dobbs. Kind of a stretch IMO but if you guys want to go with that ok.
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Post by wickedsickness on Apr 20, 2024 16:28:57 GMT -6
They traded for Dobbs because Mullens was hurt Hall had suffered a concussion and they needed a QB to start.Β Β So while trying to coach up a rookie and teach Dobbs the basic offense (just how to call plays) KOC was supposed to change the offense.Β WOW.Β Β We won a game where they communicated pre snap.Β Yet somehow KOC 'loves his system and is inflexible' because he didn't get a new system in for Dobbs.Β Kind of a stretch IMO but if you guys want to go with that ok.Β Β Dobbs took over in the game that Hall started
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 20, 2024 16:29:05 GMT -6
They traded for Dobbs because Mullens was hurt Hall had suffered a concussion and they needed a QB to start. So while trying to coach up a rookie and teach Dobbs the basic offense (just how to call plays) KOC was supposed to change the offense. WOW. We won a game where they communicated pre snap. Yet somehow KOC 'loves his system and is inflexible' because he didn't get a new system in for Dobbs. Kind of a stretch IMO but if you guys want to go with that ok. He didn't need a new system he needed to simplify it and make it fit who he had. I just do not think KOC has it in him to run a Baltimore style offense. If they draft Daniels I am in on the player but they will have to change the entire offense for him.
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shawn3458
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Post by shawn3458 on Apr 20, 2024 16:29:41 GMT -6
Dobbs was able to win when he was given space to run. Teams adjusted and kept him in the pocket and he was exposed.
Knute Rockne himself wouldnβt be able to make Dobbs a winning QB over the course of a season.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 20, 2024 17:04:23 GMT -6
I think KOC would excel and enjoy bending his scheme for a guy like Daniels.Β Β The only evidence I have heard referred to that he can not or isn't willing was the Dobbs stint.Β That is a faulty argument that was thrown out on this board.Β Β NFL offenses are to complicated to make major overhauls midseason.Β Especially with a new guy that is just learning the playbook language.Β Hard enough to get Dobbs up to speed it would have been impossible to teach a new system to all the other offensive players to incorporate Dobbs.Β Besides Dobbs isn't very good.Β Β The thing is he needed to dumb down the system for Dobbs and he did not. Their best chance to move forward and get a WC spot was to dumb things down and make it work for Dobbs. Dobbs is a super smart guy, but he needed some kind of RPO thing to really get the value out of him. KOC tried to make Dobbs adjust to his system in midseason which was the harder ask. Once they went to Mullens they were pretty much throwing in the towel. Why even trade for Dobbs? KOC did a nice job for a couple weeks spoon feeding Dobbs, but as time went on he let other teams adjust and did not counter it. It is very obvious to me KOC has a system and wants to run that system. Stem routes and crap are all basic in the NFL so it would not have been that hard to simplify what they were doing with the receivers. Everyone says to hard to change the offense mid season, well its easier to dumb the damn thing down to work with the QB then to try and fit a square peg in a round hole. Thank you Roo. I too agree it should be clear KOC has a system he isnβt willing to move off of or adjust much. I got blasted for saying this during the season by all the βyou canβt change an offenseβ mid year people. But you hit it on the headβ¦ itβs not that hard to dumb things down or put a few wrinkles in to play to your new QBβs strengths. Most teams are infusing new wrinkles weekly anyway. If you watched Dobbs first 2 games it was evident that Dobbs didnβt know the offense and was more comfortable freelancing. Then enter week 3 as a starter he is frozen in the pocket, canβt read the defense, canβt find the open guy but wonβt leave the pocket. That is KIC taking away the free lancing and pounding a round peg in a sq home. Hopefully they learned something from this, but itβs why Iβm not OK with giving up a ton of picks because Kwesi or KOC saw βthatβs our guyβ. Because these are the same two who sought out Dobbs. While I think KOC is a really good offensive mind and QB coach, after Dobbs, I think maybe he thinks he can transform any QB into a pocket passer and that worries me. I donβt think heβs changing his system up much no matter who we draft and Iβm not interested in giving up a ton of picks to watch a Justin Fields situation unfold (forcing him to fit a system his skill set doesnβt support.)
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 20, 2024 17:11:50 GMT -6
Dobbs was able to win when he was given space to run. Teams adjusted and kept him in the pocket and he was exposed. Knute Rockne himself wouldnβt be able to make Dobbs a winning QB over the course of a season. Incorrect. Dobbs never even attempted to run after game 2 with him at QB. Do you think they donβt spy Lamar, Hurts, Murray and all the other dual threat QBβs? A Soy doesnβt keep a QB from runningβ¦it may limit them, but the QB always has the advantage. He was clearly being asked to stay in the pocket and it was evident to everyone he was uncomfortable trying to throw from the pocket. We did nothing to roll him out, create an RPO which takes the Spy out. But running RPOβs require slants and we donβt even have one in our playbook. Roo is spot on, instead of asking him to read the whole field, we should have simplified reads, found ways to get him outsideβ¦ just like Balt does with Lamar. Heβs not a good enough passer to ask him to throw exclusively from the pocketβ¦ you need to help him by making a defense defend both the pass and the rush from the QB spot making the throws easier.
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shawn3458
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Post by shawn3458 on Apr 20, 2024 17:49:33 GMT -6
Dobbs was able to win when he was given space to run. Teams adjusted and kept him in the pocket and he was exposed. Knute Rockne himself wouldnβt be able to make Dobbs a winning QB over the course of a season. Incorrect. Dobbs never even attempted to run after game 2 with him at QB. Do you think they donβt spy Lamar, Hurts, Murray and all the other dual threat QBβs? A Soy doesnβt keep a QB from runningβ¦it may limit them, but the QB always has the advantage. He was clearly being asked to stay in the pocket and it was evident to everyone he was uncomfortable trying to throw from the pocket. We did nothing to roll him out, create an RPO which takes the Spy out. But running RPOβs require slants and we donβt even have one in our playbook. Roo is spot on, instead of asking him to read the whole field, we should have simplified reads, found ways to get him outsideβ¦ just like Balt does with Lamar. Heβs not a good enough passer to ask him to throw exclusively from the pocketβ¦ you need to help him by making a defense defend both the pass and the rush from the QB spot making the throws easier. Incorrect. You think KOC saw Dobbs winning games by running and told him βNo more of that. I know youβre winning games running but I want you to stay in the pocket and try to beat teams with your arm. Donβt let the fact that your shitty arm put JJ in the hospital deter you from being a pocket passer.β Despite what some posters think, KOC is not an idiot. He likes winning and has forgotten more about QB play and offenses than any of us will ever know.
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Post by 1angryviking on Apr 20, 2024 18:17:47 GMT -6
All it took was 5-7 quarters of tape for opposing defenses to "solve" Joshua Dobbs by simply making him try to complete passes.
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Post by blackmagic7 on Apr 20, 2024 18:33:31 GMT -6
It's not like Dobbs was a rookie with no NFL tape out there, either. He led the Cardinals to the #4 pick and the conversation was similar: it was Arizona's coaching.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 20, 2024 21:35:08 GMT -6
I am confident Daniels can run more than the Baltimore offense. I also think it is silly to keep throwing sheet out like KOC won't change his offense and point to the Dobbs window as proof. LMAO. Yes the EXTENDED Dobbs tenure tells us all we need to know. I didn't like the offense and playcalling in game 3. Josh Dobbs best College football year. 27 TDs passing and 12 INTs Jayden Danies last year 40 TDs passing and 4 INTs. Pause and think about that. 4 and that was pretty good SEC cornerback and safeties.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 21, 2024 8:47:10 GMT -6
I am confident Daniels can run more than the Baltimore offense. I also think it is silly to keep throwing sheet out like KOC won't change his offense and point to the Dobbs window as proof. LMAO. Yes the EXTENDED Dobbs tenure tells us all we need to know. I didn't like the offense and playcalling in game 3. Josh Dobbs best College football year. 27 TDs passing and 12 INTs Jayden Danies last year 40 TDs passing and 4 INTs. Pause and think about that. 4 and that was pretty good SEC cornerback and safeties. Daniels had a good year, but he had more then 20% of his TD's against Georgia State and another slappy team I cant remember, right? Reason people compare him to LJ is because he drops his head and is a run first guy outside the pocket. You either lean into what he does and does well or you turn him into a project breaking his habits & natural instincts and try to get him to throw over the middle. Lean in and I think you might be able to have a 10-12 win team by year 2 with him. Try and change him and you are probably still in a work in progress situation for 2-3 years. The other issue you face is the same issue Baltimore has with Jackson and that is he will seldom be healthy for a full season. It would be exciting football though. People are getting way to hung up on video game stats from gimmick college offenses. He is just 2 years removed from a 10 TD 10 INT season. He put up numbers, but did not have very good games passing vs FSU and Bama (he ran all over Bama though). Justin Fields projected similarly and had video game stats in college as well and is sturdier with a stronger arm and has struggled. I think Daniels is more Lamar then Justin, but you are looking at that type of QB.
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Post by daredevil on Apr 21, 2024 10:04:11 GMT -6
I'd be happy to stay at #11 and take whomever falls to us; be it Nix who I really like, or Penix another one I really like, or JJ. I would be happy with either one of them, and then take a top IOL men or an OT, Or trade down for a later 1st and a grab a 2nd rounder.
We already have Darnold and Hall as our QB's on the roster; I think Mullens could be the QB on the outs.
If Darnold does turn the corner; we'd be sitting in a great spot to trading next year a top QB for a boat load of picks, but that of course would have to say that the QB we select this year turns out to being the guy. What a problem that would be nice to have for a change. This draft sure seems to fit what teams above us are looking for; so most of these teams may not want to really trade out, and miss out. I'm beginning to think it will cost us more then what we can afford to move up. I would sure hate to see another Walker deal that almost wiped us out for years, and actually it sorta did. Do we really want that again? I really don't see a large gap between these top six QB's; Just about every one of these guys have the legs to being a due threat if needed. Keeping any one of these guys healthy could be a issue for us. Every one of these QB's say they would love to come into this situation, with the talent at WR's we have. Even Darnold hasn't had this good of a deal. So I say,"stay put", and lets see how the chips fall.
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