shawn3458
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Post by shawn3458 on Apr 10, 2024 22:49:02 GMT -6
Considering the Patriots situation, they are likely to be picking very high next year regardless of who they pick this year. Iβm still in the camp of taking the shot this year at QB. If you get the right guy, trade away next year to help fill in the rest of the team. Look how fast the Texans appeared to have filled in around Stroud. Besides, QBs have longer careers than other positions. Get the QB right first, the rest should be much easier. Houston had an OL and some weapons though in house to begin with. Patriots do not. Just like it is hard to decide where Young is at with Carolina because their roster is bad. You can Carr a young QB by setting him in a bad situation. Guys that have succeeded recently have went into much better situations except maybe Herbert who had weapons, but they have tried building the OL after the fact. Bengals actually wnet out and did a lot of work in free agency right before they drafted Burrow. Houston had an OL and brought in some TE's and RB's in free agency to help. Patriots did not add much and did not have much to start with. Has there been anyone since Manning that has went to a really bad team and worked through it?Β Don't say Luck because that was a playoff team the year before they tanked and they had Manning out and tanked intentionally. I mean Bengals were bad but had weapons and rebuilt their OL with cap space a bit (Burrow is always hurt also and that in part is because his OL has been a work in progress). I mean Jackson went to a good team, Hurts to a good team, Mahomes went to a good team, and on and on. Maybe Josh Allen, but then he might have already lost a couple years off the back end of his career because of the beating he took. Maybe Stafford, but he has probably lost some longevity because of the beating he took.Β I am one of these 6 QB's I would want to go to Chicago or Minnesota where there are some pieces in place. Denver, Vegas, Washington, and Patriots are dumpster fires. Maybe the Giants might work as they have a couple OL and an offensive HC, but they lack dynamic weapons. They brought in Jacoby Brissett so a young guy wonβt have to get shell shocked. If they think there is a potential franchise QB at #3 they would be morons to trade out unless they get a crazy offer from a team likely to be garbage the following year. The Bears may have played it perfectly last year, and then maybe they should have stayed put and drafted Stroud themselves. Time will tell.
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legion11
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Post by legion11 on Apr 11, 2024 5:57:57 GMT -6
Houston had an OL and some weapons though in house to begin with. Patriots do not. Just like it is hard to decide where Young is at with Carolina because their roster is bad. You can Carr a young QB by setting him in a bad situation. Guys that have succeeded recently have went into much better situations except maybe Herbert who had weapons, but they have tried building the OL after the fact. Bengals actually wnet out and did a lot of work in free agency right before they drafted Burrow. Houston had an OL and brought in some TE's and RB's in free agency to help. Patriots did not add much and did not have much to start with. Has there been anyone since Manning that has went to a really bad team and worked through it?Β Don't say Luck because that was a playoff team the year before they tanked and they had Manning out and tanked intentionally. I mean Bengals were bad but had weapons and rebuilt their OL with cap space a bit (Burrow is always hurt also and that in part is because his OL has been a work in progress). I mean Jackson went to a good team, Hurts to a good team, Mahomes went to a good team, and on and on. Maybe Josh Allen, but then he might have already lost a couple years off the back end of his career because of the beating he took. Maybe Stafford, but he has probably lost some longevity because of the beating he took.Β I am one of these 6 QB's I would want to go to Chicago or Minnesota where there are some pieces in place. Denver, Vegas, Washington, and Patriots are dumpster fires. Maybe the Giants might work as they have a couple OL and an offensive HC, but they lack dynamic weapons. They brought in Jacoby Brissett so a young guy wonβt have to get shell shocked. If they think there is a potential franchise QB at #3 they would be morons to trade out unless they get a crazy offer from a team likely to be garbage the following year. The Bears may have played it perfectly last year, and then maybe they should have stayed put and drafted Stroud themselves. Time will tell. Exactly. They can throw Brissett to the wolves, he can be their Darnold. If they hit on the rookie QB they will have an inkling just by seeing him in practice for a year. They don't have to "Carr" him by playing him too early. And in 2025 they are projected to have an historic amount of cap space. So if the young QB feels like a keeper they can bring in a bunch of free agent OL, WR, TE to build around him. Plus they will have the added bonus of very early draft picks in every round, probably top 3 again the way things are looking right now. If you think you have a legit franchise QB prospect in your reach you absolutely take that shot no matter what else is going on.
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Post by purpletrouble on Apr 11, 2024 7:46:29 GMT -6
To be fair Penix who might be available at 11 is a MUCH better prospect than Popgun Ponder ever was.Β NOT even close.Β His tape is soooo much better it is laughable.Β Β Nix and Rattler are also better prospects and they certainly have superior arms.Β Β Ponder was a huge reach and not pertinent to this draft.Β Β There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's.
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Post by dougpaschal on Apr 11, 2024 8:53:30 GMT -6
To be fair Penix who might be available at 11 is a MUCH better prospect than Popgun Ponder ever was. NOT even close. His tape is soooo much better it is laughable. Nix and Rattler are also better prospects and they certainly have superior arms. Ponder was a huge reach and not pertinent to this draft. There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's. Thank you for your wisdom on this topic. I appreciate it
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Post by purpletrouble on Apr 11, 2024 9:14:38 GMT -6
There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's. Thank you for your wisdom on this topic. I appreciate itΒ You & Taz. 2 proverbial peas in a pod
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Post by 1angryviking on Apr 11, 2024 9:18:11 GMT -6
To be fair Penix who might be available at 11 is a MUCH better prospect than Popgun Ponder ever was. NOT even close. His tape is soooo much better it is laughable. Nix and Rattler are also better prospects and they certainly have superior arms. Ponder was a huge reach and not pertinent to this draft. There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's. Football IQ is a real thing. Myron Rolle was a Rhodes Scholar with the necessary athletic ability to play in the NFL... he's now a neurosurgeon. But, he didn't have the necessary "twitch" instincts to be pro and washed out of the NFL after 2 seasons. Ponder is simply one of many QB's that wasn't great at the professional level because he didn't see the field like some "meatheads" can.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 11, 2024 9:24:08 GMT -6
To be fair Penix who might be available at 11 is a MUCH better prospect than Popgun Ponder ever was. NOT even close. His tape is soooo much better it is laughable. Nix and Rattler are also better prospects and they certainly have superior arms. Ponder was a huge reach and not pertinent to this draft. There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's. Since I do not live in Minnesota I get some different takes then you seem to on the Vikings. Vikings are actually kind of known as a team that finds superstars in the draft. The Jefferson's, Hunter's, Harry's, AP's, Big Country's, Randy Moss' of the world. Also known for not drafting QB's. Cine maybe a bust, but he was not over drafted as he was selected right in slot from his projections and we know for a fact Cowboys had him rated top 15 in the draft. He was not a reach. Matt Kalil wasn't a reach either. Ponder was a reach. I do not think you fully understand what a reach means in the draft? A player can fail and not be a reach pick by any means.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 11, 2024 12:19:46 GMT -6
You are welcome purpletrouble. Always happy to help.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 11, 2024 12:55:48 GMT -6
Question is, is the 4th or 5th QB in the Draft worthy of the 11th pick, what also plays into the mix is Harrison, Nabers, Alt, ODunze, DeJean, Murphy, Bowers all have an impact as well. Smart money is to stand pat and either take a chance at Penix, Nix or Rattler (Penix and maybe Nix at 11, Rattler second round with trades) This draft is probably 8 QB's deep for borderline solid to great QB potential. The Bears are going with Williams there is very little doubt of that now. Washington and New england are after Maye/Daniels/Macarthy I am sure. Arizona do they give Murray targets, trade out for 11 and 23 or draft a QB, Chargers are in the catbird seat here with the possibility of Harrison, ODunze or trading the pick. The Giants if Penix is not worth 11 is he worth 6. Tennessee they spent a lot of draft capital on Levis and Willis the last 2 years they also brought in Mason Rudolph they need line support plain and simple. Atlanta nope, Chicago #2 my bet here is they chance on Odunze or Harrison. Jets well they have Erin and have wrecked more top prospect QB's then anybody sans the browns. Unenviable..... I say we sit pretty good because Darnold will certainly be better then what we trotted out last year after Kirk went down. If we don't draft a QB and suck we end up in the running for the top 4 QB's in 2025, that is what half this board clammers for all the time. "Smart money is to stand pat and either take a chance at Penix, Nix or Rattler (Penix and maybe Nix at 11, Rattler second round with trades)" This is the smart money attitude that's kept the Vikings outsdie looking in ever since Tarkenton broke his leg and hobbled off into the sunset. "Let's take another chance and settle for the 4th 5th or lower QB in 2nd 3rd 4th round because we're the Minnesota vikings and well, that's what we do." We did it with 2006: Tarvaris Jackson 64th overall, 2nd round 2007: Tyler Thigpen 217th overall, 7th round 2010: Joe Webb 199th overall, 6th round (drafted as a WR) 2008: John David Booty 137th overall, 5th round 2011: Christian Ponder 12th overall, 1st round 2014: Teddy Bridgewater 32nd overall, 1st round 2020: Nate Stanley 249th overall, 7th round 2021: Kellen Mond 66th overall, 3rd round. Do you really want to continue this ridiculous record of failure? Because Penix, Nix and Rattler are different? IN what possible way? every one of the aforementioned dud were ALSO supposed to be different, and every one of them either flamed out spectacularly or simply fizzled out like a wet cigarette. repeating the same thing over and over again isn't the "smart money," it's the "definition of insanity" money.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 11, 2024 13:37:08 GMT -6
Not trying to start an argument here but I'm curious why several posters think Darnold is going to be anything more than an average journeyman. He's on his 4th team in 7 years. His career TD/INT ratio is just a bit over 1:1. His completion percentage is a hair under 60%. He's not a horrible QB, but he's the definition of mediocre. I recall Patriots defenders used to laugh about facing him because of how easy it was to "make him see ghosts." I don't see him as being significantly better or worse than Mullins over a long enough sample size. Darnold will play safer, throw less maddening interceptions, but also be more reluctant to fit it into tighter windows. But the end result will be just about the same. Ideally he's just a placeholder for about 8 games until the rookie steps in. I'll risk an answer. Darnold was drafted 3rd overall by the Jets, a team along with the Browns and Bears notorious for drafting QBs and ruining their careers. Darnold had zero coaching, zero line and zero targets. Jets drafted Zack Wilson following Darnold 2nd overall, and where is he now? When have you even heard of a Jets QB since Geno Smit -- who, I might remind you, had to go to Seattle to prove himself. The Mr.Darnold found himself with the Panthers, another bottom feeder team that's gone 31-68 in the last 6 seasons where he never started a game. Then he went to the 49ers with a good team, and while he didn't burn up the league, he did show that with a decent team, he could produce. The Vikings and 49ers run similar offenses, and many of us believe that with the coaching he will get coupled with full 1st team OTAs and TC, Darnold could possibly, maybe even likely, return to at least a semblance of the form that made him a 3rd overall pick in 2018. He can be a lot more than just an 8 game placeholder if everything falls into place for him, and I'm hopig it does. I solidly believe he has a lot better chance of doing that than of any of the 2nd tier QBs in this draft like Penix, Nix, or Rattler lower down the draft have. So there's my take on your question.
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Post by purplevein on Apr 11, 2024 13:39:37 GMT -6
Jaren Hall was a smart money pick last year.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 11, 2024 13:49:00 GMT -6
At this point none of the QB's in the draft are franchise QB's, they are possible franchise QB's and the possibility diminishes quite a bit when you have the offensive personnel that the Patriots have. So you would pass on the most important position in the NFL because you are afraid you may not have enough support for him? Absolutely. Remember guys named David Carr, Sam Bradford, or Andrew Luck? None of these rookie QBs show up wearing blue tights, red shorts, and a red cape and an S on their chests. They can't do it all. They still need a team around them or their careers are more often than not short, violent, and brutal. Build a team, then get your rook QB while he still has 5 years on his rook contract. OR....you can be the Bears, Browns, and Jets and just simply keep trotting out high pick rooks to get their heads beat into golf balls and their bodies into Jello. Look how well it's worked for them.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 11, 2024 14:09:00 GMT -6
To be fair Penix who might be available at 11 is a MUCH better prospect than Popgun Ponder ever was. NOT even close. His tape is soooo much better it is laughable. Nix and Rattler are also better prospects and they certainly have superior arms. Ponder was a huge reach and not pertinent to this draft. There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's. Please tell me, even if they try and miss, how choosing the wrong QB this year is making the same mistake when this GM and coaches didn't make the first one? No future Viking GM may EVER draft another QB because Spielman and Frazier badly reached for one 13 years ago? That reach coupled with another 12 years later qualify as a propensity? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on long term propensities.
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Post by purpletrouble on Apr 11, 2024 14:12:43 GMT -6
There is a lot more to being a QB, then just having a "Superior Arm" any meathead with an arm can throw a football. Ponder was a huge reach, but they were touting his potential "Football IQ" as a great game manager. We saw how that played out. Not making that same mistake is PERTINENT. Vikings have always had a propensity for reaching on draft picks in the first round. Lewis Cine anyone.? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on drafting QB's. Please tell me, even if they try and miss, how choosing the wrong QB this year is making the same mistake when this GM and coaches didn't make the first one? No future Viking GM may EVER draft another QB because Spielman and Frazier badly reached for one 13 years ago? That reach coupled with another 12 years later qualify as a propensity?Β Β But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on long term propensities. It's part of the Vikings curse. People with infinite wisdom know this.π
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 11, 2024 14:36:27 GMT -6
Please tell me, even if they try and miss, how choosing the wrong QB this year is making the same mistake when this GM and coaches didn't make the first one? No future Viking GM may EVER draft another QB because Spielman and Frazier badly reached for one 13 years ago? That reach coupled with another 12 years later qualify as a propensity? But thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom on long term propensities. It's part of the Vikings curse. People with infinite wisdom know this.π If age grants infinite wisdom, I could put the oracle of Delphi to shame.
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