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Post by blackmagic7 on Feb 25, 2024 15:14:56 GMT -6
Think I posted the same rhetoric - QB3 (Daniels is who I'm thinking) makes it past New England and Arizona just missed their guy. It's a perfect idea on paper. I think though that Arizona will get a lot of interest for the pick. How about Washington there though at 2? What a position they are in if they can go without Maye or Daniels. Imagine they take an offer from Arizona moving up to 2 to get Harrison Jr. Patriots take a "Top 2" QB at 3 and now Washington is back on the phone talking business for Daniels or Maye. I dunno what they'd get for falling back two spots but this thread shows what they'd expect from us in a double dip falling back (merely) to 11.
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Post by redbird87 on Feb 25, 2024 15:25:00 GMT -6
That's the good stuff. There's been buzz in recent weeks about the Vikings being a team to watch for a possible trade up for a quarterback, but this is a report that directly addresses the idea of the Vikings trading up to a specific spot (No. 3 overall) for a specific player (Jayden Daniels). Assuming Kirk Cousins signs elsewhere, this might be a worthwhile home run swing by the Vikings. They need to a take a chance on upside, and Daniels has tons of it. The reigning Heisman winner is the most dynamic dual-threat prospect in this year's quarterback class. He threw for 3,812 yards and 40 touchdown passes with just four interceptions this past season, adding another 1,134 yards and ten touchdowns as a runner. It was a truly ridiculous statistical season for the fifth-year senior who transferred from Arizona State a couple years ago. Daniels is an incredible runner with agility and breakaway speed, but he's also far more than that. He can manage the pocket, go through progressions, and make good decisions with the football. His other superpower is his deep ball, which was the best in the nation in 2023. Imagine what the Vikings' offense could look like if Daniels pans out. An elite dual-threat QB being coached by Kevin O'Connell, throwing deep balls to Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison? That could be scary for the rest of the NFC. Have you ever watched him play, ever read a scouting report on the kid. Have you ever listened to KOC talk about what he wants from a QB? Did you not watch The Josh Dobbs experiment. Other than he throws a good deep ball…. Daniels is literally the antithesis of what KOC wants his QB’s to do. KOC wants a traditional QB, not a dual threat guy who wants to improvise constantly with his legs and is inaccurate on short and intermediate throws from the pocket. He wants a QB that will stand in the pocket and deliver a strike while under pressure…..nope! He wants a QB with a strong arm that can pass with touch and power… nope, he wants a QB that is accurate… not on short and intermediate routes, he wants a QB that throws on time… Nope! He wants a QB that sees and reads the whole field… maybe. Of the likely top 4 QB’s (Williams, Maye, Daniel’s, McCarthy) he’s 100% the worst fit for KOC’s offense. I don’t want to move up, but if we do it better not be for Daniels. Don’t get me wrong… I’m not saying Daniel’s is a bust… he may prove to be very good with a coach that wants run an offense like Baltimore… but him coming to Minn will likely be very similar to Fields in Chicago…a shit show!
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budgrant1
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Competitive rebuild my ass...sell the team WILF
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Post by budgrant1 on Feb 25, 2024 15:28:06 GMT -6
That's the good stuff. There's been buzz in recent weeks about the Vikings being a team to watch for a possible trade up for a quarterback, but this is a report that directly addresses the idea of the Vikings trading up to a specific spot (No. 3 overall) for a specific player (Jayden Daniels). Assuming Kirk Cousins signs elsewhere, this might be a worthwhile home run swing by the Vikings. They need to a take a chance on upside, and Daniels has tons of it. The reigning Heisman winner is the most dynamic dual-threat prospect in this year's quarterback class. He threw for 3,812 yards and 40 touchdown passes with just four interceptions this past season, adding another 1,134 yards and ten touchdowns as a runner. It was a truly ridiculous statistical season for the fifth-year senior who transferred from Arizona State a couple years ago. Daniels is an incredible runner with agility and breakaway speed, but he's also far more than that. He can manage the pocket, go through progressions, and make good decisions with the football. His other superpower is his deep ball, which was the best in the nation in 2023. Imagine what the Vikings' offense could look like if Daniels pans out. An elite dual-threat QB being coached by Kevin O'Connell, throwing deep balls to Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison? That could be scary for the rest of the NFC. Have you ever watched him play, ever read a scouting report on the kid. Have you ever listened to KOC talk about what he wants from a QB? Did you not watch The Josh Dobbs experiment. Other than he throws a good deep ball…. Daniels is literally the antithesis of what KOC wants his QB’s to do. KOC wants a traditional QB, not a dual threat guy who wants to improvise constantly with his legs and is inaccurate on short and intermediate throws from the pocket. He wants a QB that will stand in the pocket and deliver a strike while under pressure…..nope! He wants a QB with a strong arm that can pass with touch and power… nope, he wants a QB that is accurate… not on short and intermediate routes, he wants a QB that throws on time… Nope! He wants a QB that sees and reads the whole field… maybe. Of the likely top 4 QB’s (Williams, Maye, Daniel’s, McCarthy) he’s 100% the worst fit for KOC’s offense. I don’t want to move up, but if we do it better not be for Daniels. Don’t get me wrong… I’m not saying Daniel’s is a bust… he may prove to be very good with a coach that wants run an offense like Baltimore… but him coming to Minn will likely be very similar to Fields in Chicago…a shit show! Well IF its a shit show It was that way BEFORE he ever got there
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Post by Vikeroo on Feb 25, 2024 15:36:57 GMT -6
The problem with Daniels is it would require a complete reworking of the KOC offense which I do not think he is inclined to do.
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budgrant1
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Competitive rebuild my ass...sell the team WILF
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Post by budgrant1 on Feb 25, 2024 15:38:22 GMT -6
The problem with Daniels is it would require a complete reworking of the KOC offense which I do not think he is inclined to do. Strike 1
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Post by blackmagic7 on Feb 25, 2024 16:12:38 GMT -6
I think Daniels has a lot of Teddy Bridgewater in his game. His pocket mechanics and footwork specifically, although his ability to take hits and keep ticking is also pretty similar.
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Post by avguy on Feb 25, 2024 16:41:29 GMT -6
I have to agree with the QB style theory that KOC wants in there. He must have been Tremendously influenced as a backup rookie player to Brady back in the days to see offense as this.
I for one - am not a fan of that style, but I also want a strong running game and if it was present - I don't care if there is a statue pocket guy vs. a very mobile Allen or Mahomes type. On the other hand, when the QB is the leading rusher or 2nd on the team - count me against that design.
As long as this is all holding true, I would not be surprised at all if KC is extended and Penix is drafted as late as Rnd. 2 here going forward. Make it another season of bottom five rushing attempts in the NFL.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Feb 25, 2024 20:59:18 GMT -6
It is difficult to speculate about scenarios because it is very difficult to evaluate the top QBs.
History shows us that some of these top guys will likely flop and some will likely surprise.
Honestly it is impossible to know if the Vikings are attempting to trade up to the 3 to 7 spot if they would be doing so to draft Daniels? or if they would be doing so to target McCarthy? or are they after someone else??? Lot of rumors floating but we don't know the mindset of the front office, coaches and scouts.
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Post by tavike on Feb 25, 2024 23:02:20 GMT -6
What's the rate for a team that never takes a QB in the first round? Maybe .5%? No way, I am sure the success rate is way higher than those who trade up to take a QB. I would wager my house on that When I'm I moving in?
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Post by tavike on Feb 25, 2024 23:06:25 GMT -6
I think Daniels has a lot of Teddy Bridgewater in his game. His pocket mechanics and footwork specifically, although his ability to take hits and keep ticking is also pretty similar. He's gumby
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mjollnir
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Post by mjollnir on Feb 26, 2024 8:55:26 GMT -6
There is nothing wrong with the draft… ultimately it is where all great players come from. The problem comes from over drafting due to need and expectations that every 1st, 2nd and 3rd Rounder is a sure thing that is going to fix every problem and be so much better than someone we already have. Most draft picks wind up being mostly average to below average players. As it pertains to QB specifically….if we were sitting at 3 and you wanted to take a swing at a QB… OK. I’d still rather take BPA but I’m fine with taking a shot at a franchise QB when the cost is 1 pick (albeit a high one). But to give up multiple 1st Rd pics and likely a 2nd to move up to take a swing at a guy that’s not only a 90% fail rate but not even considered one of the top 2 QB’s in the class…. Is just Stupid. Even if we’d have traded Hunter last year like we should have to Jax and had the 11 and 17th… I still wouldn’t give up multiple 1st to move up to 3 to go draft a QB this year….especially when the guy you are likely to draft isn’t even a great fit for our offense. I know I’m on record as being a Kirk fan, but I think that ship has sailed and I just don’t see how bringing him back is going to work with the dead cap he’s sitting on. We should have drafted a QB last year when Levis was available. He may not turn out to be the Fr QB you seek, but at least you’d have a guy in house who had a year to learn and who you have an idea of what you have. This is looking more and more like Ponder 2.0! We are going to draft a QB come hell or high water because we have to. I just hope if we do it’s at 11or better yet we trade back and take one between 12 and 32 and get another 2nd ir 3rd in the process. I’m not advocating another 11-32 trade…. But if we are going to go QB I’d be fine with that because I don’t think any of the QB’s after Maye are 1st Rd Talents…..at least not in zkOC’s offense. The Ponder pick has traumatized many a Viking fan. We all need to get over it. At this point, I'm 62, watched the Vikes since I was 7 and I'm willing to see them do something they have never done before and see what happens. At this point what is there left to do different. The Vikings have drafted QB's high, mid and low went after the free agents, built stout running games with monster defense, built high flying offense with mid level defense, built highly rated pass control offense with monster defense and yet have not held the Lombardi. McCarthy and Nix are best fits for KOC's offense...period does that mean they are the best option to draft, only if you are willing to sit at 11. Moving up for any of the others also means changes to the team that will require the draft capita that you gave up to move.
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Post by daredevil on Feb 26, 2024 9:04:43 GMT -6
My take is the same; sit at #11; if Bo Nix is there you jump on him. He would (imo) fit what offense we run. He can read defenses and he definitely can read and understand an NFL play book. He's got a quick release when needed and he has a good feel for pressure. He has the legs to move and avoid pressure and also run if need be. He can play under center or shotgun. His progression has improved considerably. He looks like he has spent time in the weight room; his body has matured physically and he shows good touch on long, short or intermediate throws. He throws to the guys that are open. he seems to have a great sense and trust in his receivers. In other words he trusts what he see's and anticipates his receiver to be open when the ball arrives. He seems to keep his eyes down field all the time; even when he's scrambling. Of course; he's like all rookie QB's; he'll need to get used to the speed of the NFL, but I really like what I've seen of him this year. Yeah; he's my guy right now at that position. You can have Williams; I didn't like what I saw of him this year; he's a hair above Murray; who I still think is a bust. JJ is my second selection, but I still wouldn't move and go get him; unless he's a pick or two above our pick (that's only if that's the guy I'm targeting), but no way I'm going above pick #9 to go get him. Just be patient, sit, and wait at #11, and go from there. I still think we may be able to move down a couple of picks, and still get a quality QB for the future.
If Kwesi makes a splash as some are talking about; I have to believe it's coming from the word; from above. I hope; he's not that stupid to do it on his own, but I wouldn't bank on it.
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budgrant1
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Competitive rebuild my ass...sell the team WILF
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Post by budgrant1 on Feb 26, 2024 10:13:36 GMT -6
My take is the same; sit at #11; if Bo Nix is there you jump on him. He would (imo) fit what offense we run. He can read defenses and he definitely can read and understand an NFL play book. He's got a quick release when needed and he has a good feel for pressure. He has the legs to move and avoid pressure and also run if need be. He can play under center or shotgun. His progression has improved considerably. He looks like he has spent time in the weight room; his body has matured physically and he shows good touch on long, short or intermediate throws. He throws to the guys that are open. he seems to have a great sense and trust in his receivers. In other words he trusts what he see's and anticipates his receiver to be open when the ball arrives. He seems to keep his eyes down field all the time; even when he's scrambling. Of course; he's like all rookie QB's; he'll need to get used to the speed of the NFL, but I really like what I've seen of him this year. Yeah; he's my guy right now at that position. You can have Williams; I didn't like what I saw of him this year; he's a hair above Murray; who I still think is a bust. JJ is my second selection, but I still wouldn't move and go get him; unless he's a pick or two above our pick (that's only if that's the guy I'm targeting), but no way I'm going above pick #9 to go get him. Just be patient, sit, and wait at #11, and go from there. I still think we may be able to move down a couple of picks, and still get a quality QB for the future.
If Kwesi makes a splash as some are talking about; I have to believe it's coming from the word; from above. I hope; he's not that stupid to do it on his own, but I wouldn't bank on it.
2024 NFL Draft Scouting Report: A prototypical build at 6-foot-2, 217 pounds. Combines his size with arm talent, positioning himself as an intriguing draft prospect for some. Nix excels in the RPO (Run-Pass-Option) style of offense due to his pocket mobility, consistently evading the pass rush. He can extend plays under duress, making off-schedule plays when things break down within the pocket. He displays versatility in his release, changing arm angles to throw around defenders while maintaining velocity. He’s best with accuracy in the short to intermediate throws. Nix has a good awareness of where he can capitalize on scrambling lanes while consistently keeping a downfield passing mentality. His agility in the pocket enables him to sidestep pressure, reset, and deliver downfield if needed. Weaknesses: Nix has developed after transferring from Auburn to Oregon, but inconsistencies still exist. His footwork can become “happy feet” when under pressure, resulting in erratic throws. He needs refinement in his processing skills. This Ducks’ QB can get to his primary read, but his hesitancy during receiver breaks and the lack of scanning the full field can lead to missed opportunities. This also happens to deep routes, where despite having the arm strength, he often hesitates which has resulted in turnovers in his career and a low competition percentage in deep ball targets. Lacks LEADERSHIP.
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Post by drhoades on Feb 26, 2024 10:18:36 GMT -6
No way, I am sure the success rate is way higher than those who trade up to take a QB. I would wager my house on that When I'm I moving in? You’re not. It’s already been proven with the numbers time and again on this board. You just like amateur players and refuse to accept truth. It doesn’t take a first round qb to win the sb.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Feb 26, 2024 12:22:37 GMT -6
I worry that Nix will be a backup in the NFL or disappointing starter.
He has had 5 years of starting college football and yet one of the big negatives on him is he plays in a college RPO system that allows for a ton of easy first reads and short run after the catch passes. All scouting reports indicate he needs to improve at progressing through multiple reads and that red flag means he could struggle big time in a pro offense.
The red flag of 'lack of leadership' also follows Nix. Not sure if that is deserved but it is mentioned time and time again.
Strong arm, good NFL body and good athlete are his strengths.
But at 23 with those red flags I don't see Nix as being a viable option at 11. I don't think that KOC and Kwesi will go that way. I could be wrong, scouting QBs is difficult.
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