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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 8:20:05 GMT -6
I'm with you except if Stroud falls into the 15-20 range you make that move all day long. Same with Richardson. The S2 scores don't matter so much for me. Marino had terrible scores and so did many others. Can they play football? Marino had terrible Wonderlic scores, not the S2, which wasn't around until about 2015. The two tests are very, very different. I just think that Stroud is likely to end up like pretty much all of the Ohio State QBs have. 2001 Steve Bellasari 2002 Craig Krenzel 2003 Craig Krenzel 2004 Justin Zwick 2005 Justin Zwick 2006 Troy Smith 2007 Todd Boeckman 2008 Todd Boeckman 2009 Terrelle Pryor 2010 Terrelle Pryor 2011 Joe Bauserman 2012 Braxton Miller 2013 Braxton Miller 2014 J.T. Barrett 2015 Cardale Jones 2016 J.T. Barrett 2017 J.T. Barrett 2018 Dwayne Haskins 2019 Justin Fields 2020 Justin Fields 2021 C.J. Stroud 2022 C.J. Stroud Except the guys pre Haskins weren't considered to be top pro qb prospects.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 26, 2023 8:42:47 GMT -6
I don't like OSU QB's and that includes Fields. OSU dominates at the college level. They are so much better across the board than almost every opponent that you have no idea what you are drafting at QB. QB's there have all day to throw. Recently...their receivers are amazing and so wide open I think I couldn't miss them and as a result they are rarely forced to go through progressions. The system typically simplifies the offense for the QB and that doesn't transition well to the NFL. In the NFL, you are going to have to go through progressions, you are going to have to handle pressure, you are going to have to learn how to throw to receivers that are covered. And you are going to have to process what you see at much faster rates. It's not just about arm talent. Burrow is an exception to this statement....but in the last 15 years the best QB's aren't typically coming from powerhouse programs, they are coming from average programs where a QB is use to operating under pressure, the talent around them isn't as good so they are already better at throwing into tighter windows, having to be better about ball placement and knowing how to throw to receivers who may be covered.
As for Fields, all he has shown is the ability to throw a great deep ball on go routes and run better than their RB's. Maybe the light comes on, maybe it doesn't....but through 2 seasons I don't think he's shown any ability to run an offense efficiently. For him to have success, you have to design an offense around his running abilities similar to Lamar. That may wind up working in Chicago, but that certainly isn't the offense I see KOC wanting to run. Every stop along the way for KOC including his first year has here been designed around running great route trees with WR and throwing efficiently, accurately and on time from the pocket.
That is what they tried to do with Fields in the first 1/3 of last season and it was an epic failure. The last 2/3rds of the season they started to change the offense to allow him to add lib outside the pocket and use his legs and he did better. But my problem with guys like both Fields and Lamar...they aren't really QB's that can run....they are Running Backs that can throw.
If you have a talent like JJ on your team....you need a QB that is a QB first....otherwise you are wasting his talents.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 26, 2023 10:23:22 GMT -6
Stroud's agent said he hasn't even taken the S2 test. Someone is lying. If he got a 15....maybe Stroud isn't sharp enough to realize he took it! Couldn't resist! In all seriousness....I wish all these kids success and hope they all do well. I don't have anything against Stroud overall. At one point I thought he might be the safer pick over young, but the more I read, the more I watch....I just find it really hard to take away anything from Strouds tape aside from he's really accurate when he has all day in the pocket and can throw to his first read who is wide open. How that translates to the next level.....
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Post by 2012mom on Apr 26, 2023 10:24:31 GMT -6
Stroud's agent said he hasn't even taken the S2 test. Someone is lying. If he got a 15....maybe Stroud isn't sharp enough to realize he took it! Ouch!
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Post by Prටudhටrn on Apr 26, 2023 10:46:52 GMT -6
Stroud's agent said he hasn't even taken the S2 test. Someone is lying. If he got a 15....maybe Stroud isn't sharp enough to realize he took it! Couldn't resist! In all seriousness....I wish all these kids success and hope they all do well. I don't have anything against Stroud overall. At one point I thought he might be the safer pick over young, but the more I read, the more I watch....I just find it really hard to take away anything from Strouds tape aside from he's really accurate when he has all day in the pocket and can throw to his first read who is wide open. How that translates to the next level..... Joe Person @josephperson 12m C.J. Stroud had strong words RE reports he didn’t do well on S2 test, suggesting they were leaked purposefully. “I’m not dumb. But I can still realize who I am and can just be myself. I’m a football player, not a test-taker.”
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Post by vikingslore on Apr 26, 2023 11:04:06 GMT -6
If he got a 15....maybe Stroud isn't sharp enough to realize he took it! Couldn't resist! In all seriousness....I wish all these kids success and hope they all do well. I don't have anything against Stroud overall. At one point I thought he might be the safer pick over young, but the more I read, the more I watch....I just find it really hard to take away anything from Strouds tape aside from he's really accurate when he has all day in the pocket and can throw to his first read who is wide open. How that translates to the next level..... Joe Person @josephperson 12m C.J. Stroud had strong words RE reports he didn’t do well on S2 test, suggesting they were leaked purposefully. “I’m not dumb. But I can still realize who I am and can just be myself. I’m a football player, not a test-taker.” So the take away is that his agent lied when he said Stroud didn't take the S2.
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Post by frantheman10 on Apr 26, 2023 12:10:29 GMT -6
If Richardson somehow falls to the mid teens then I would move up 6-7 slots to get him. All the QBs are potential busts but AR has the highest star ceiling. But the risk is too big to move up 15-20 slots to get him and trade the capital.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 13:04:54 GMT -6
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Post by burntpackerdbs84 on Apr 26, 2023 13:42:42 GMT -6
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 26, 2023 13:44:51 GMT -6
Doug.... you know the fact you made him your Avatar guarantees he's going to be average or worse, right??
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lunas
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Post by lunas on Apr 26, 2023 13:58:22 GMT -6
Spielman said that Florida’s HC told him that 20 teams have Richardson graded as a 2nd Rounder.
Take that for what it’s worth.
Also look at the Georgia game closely and see how he performs under duress.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 26, 2023 15:45:33 GMT -6
Spielman said that Florida’s HC told him that 20 teams have Richardson graded as a 2nd Rounder. Take that for what it’s worth. Also look at the Georgia game closely and see how he performs under duress. I don't think anyone is questioning he has some work to do, but you can see in that video that overall he prefers to stay in the pocket, he can evade a rush, he's got arm strength for days and he has pretty good poise. Most of the poor throws you see there are byproduct of poor footwork which is coachable. And in fairness, Florida playing Georgia is about the same as Georgia playing the Bears. It's still men amongst boys! I think the key for this kid is to go to a team with a Coach that understands QB's and in a situation where he can watch for a year while learning and providing time to improve his mechanics. Minnesota would be an outstanding landing spot for him. He wouldn't have to play right away, KOC is a very good QB coach, Cousins can teach him how to be a pro and study film and he'd be stepping into a positive environment with a smaller spotlight and a great supporting cast. Compared to an earlier post. He isn't Justin Fields, he's used to playing under pressure, he doesn't look to run when things break down, he's used to throwing into small windows and he's used to throwing to receivers that are not wide open. He does need to learn not to lead his WR into a defender, but aside from that, watching that clip of the Georgia game does little to make me not want him. If he was a 5th year Senior playing like that...well my opinion might be different but for a guy that has only played 13 games at the college level....the issues he's showing don't concern me. The positive if you watch those clips is that on most of his misses he did find the open man while going thru progressions and while under duress. His accuracy tends to leave him when he throws flat footed and or is falling back while throwing. Again...that "should be" an easily fixable issue with enough repetition.
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Post by vikingslore on Apr 26, 2023 18:29:09 GMT -6
Doug.... you know the fact you made him your Avatar guarantees he's going to be average or worse, right?? He's like a chameleon changing his avatar but yet can't conceal his fetish for chubs (Chris Farley...again?).
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Post by vikingslore on Apr 26, 2023 18:48:34 GMT -6
Spielman said that Florida’s HC told him that 20 teams have Richardson graded as a 2nd Rounder. Take that for what it’s worth. Also look at the Georgia game closely and see how he performs under duress. I don't think anyone is questioning he has some work to do, but you can see in that video that overall he prefers to stay in the pocket, he can evade a rush, he's got arm strength for days and he has pretty good poise. Most of the poor throws you see there are byproduct of poor footwork which is coachable. And in fairness, Florida playing Georgia is about the same as Georgia playing the Bears. It's still men amongst boys! I think the key for this kid is to go to a team with a Coach that understands QB's and in a situation where he can watch for a year while learning and providing time to improve his mechanics. Minnesota would be an outstanding landing spot for him. He wouldn't have to play right away, KOC is a very good QB coach, Cousins can teach him how to be a pro and study film and he'd be stepping into a positive environment with a smaller spotlight and a great supporting cast. Compared to an earlier post. He isn't Justin Fields, he's used to playing under pressure, he doesn't look to run when things break down, he's used to throwing into small windows and he's used to throwing to receivers that are not wide open. He does need to learn not to lead his WR into a defender, but aside from that, watching that clip of the Georgia game does little to make me not want him. If he was a 5th year Senior playing like that...well my opinion might be different but for a guy that has only played 13 games at the college level....the issues he's showing don't concern me. The positive if you watch those clips is that on most of his misses he did find the open man while going thru progressions and while under duress. His accuracy tends to leave him when he throws flat footed and or is falling back while throwing. Again...that "should be" an easily fixable issue with enough repetition. I agree RB about AR. Exceptionally talented and there's no way he slips to our pick let alone the 2nd round IMO.
The biggest takeaway for me is I hope Flores watches lots of Georgia tape on defense and adopts what they do (apply pressure with 5-6 pass rushers the majority of the time) which not only creates turnovers but throws the entire opposing Offense out of whack demoralizing them. I like an aggressive defensive scheme and I think we already have the talent and depth at DL to make it work provided we keep Hunter as a traditional hand in the dirt DE, don't expect him to drop back in coverage and draft 2 CB's in a draft loaded with talent at that position as well as 1 LB with size and speed.
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Post by vikingslore on Apr 26, 2023 18:52:15 GMT -6
Spielman said that Florida’s HC told him that 20 teams have Richardson graded as a 2nd Rounder. Take that for what it’s worth. Also look at the Georgia game closely and see how he performs under duress. I noticed RS moved on to CBS Sportline as 1 of the talking heads. He knows nothing about talent evaluation. Plus with his kind of squeaky, high pitched voice, he's unwatchable.
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