RF54
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Post by RF54 on Mar 26, 2024 11:13:55 GMT -6
first of all, YES, i do believe they are trying to get into top 3 to get their top guy but my point is that is just not a sure thing. The fact that Houston came to Minny offering the #23rd pick is interesting. Yes it gives more ammo for a trade up but there are teams that can simply offer more. I know that if they do move up they will have to make a huge move to get #3 or #4. Within seconds fans will be pulling out the old trade chart and screeming Kwesi gave uo too much. I am just stating I can see where it is just as likely to fail getting their guy are they are to pull it off. I see the likelyhood of getting Maye at 25%. Daniels maybe 5%. McCarthy I would say is 50% chance. Right now every team is war gaming and they should have at least 11 possible scenarios and plans for early Thurday night. Yes it gives more ammo for a trade up but there are teams that can simply offer more. Who can offermore than 2 1sts this year? Future picks are always downgraded one full round, so a 2025 1st is valued as a 2nd. Further, 2 1sts this year means the receiving team gets the benefit of the trade THIS year, not 2 years from now. There is NO team who can offer more than the Vikings without offering their entire draft, and Dick Butkus is dead now. Teams can add players, it doesn't have to be draft picks only. The #5 pick is far more valuable than the #11 pick. Some teams may only want to fall back so far...Within seconds fans will be pulling out the old trade chart and screeming Kwesi gave uo too much. DO you really think they care WHAT the fans scream about? The only people they worry about screaming at the are the Wilfs. that comment was about people freaking out on draft day, and yes they care, that's why they addressed the draft day trades in '22 that were graded poorly on the treade chart. But anyone reading game day threads know posters freak out over everything the team does or doesn't do...
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mgb8
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Post by mgb8 on Mar 26, 2024 11:30:03 GMT -6
"All of them except McCarthy have negatives directly pertaining to their play (Even Daniels' ectomorphism) while McCarthy's negative had nothing to do with his skills but with the scheme he was asked to execute. " he is far from perfect I agree, and they all are. None seem like locks, to me. That said, I want to thank you for sharing that vid, because it made me like McCarthy more, not less. Yeah, some arm strength issues on some throws. Some questionable decisions and angles. Some not fully seeing where defenders were. But a lot of the bad plays also looked like the receiver kind of gave up and the defender was more aggressive on the play. Plays were a Jefferson, or even Addison, would have been in position to make the catch and fought for it. Some 50/50 where even with a battling receiver could go other way, but all in all - I actually liked a lot of what I saw in terms of processing, reading the field, etc. Even ball placement, not sure if the issue was the throw vs. what the receiver did when the ball was in the air.
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Post by smoot4208 on Mar 26, 2024 11:33:13 GMT -6
first of all, YES, i do believe they are trying to get into top 3 to get their top guy but my point is that is just not a sure thing.Β Β The fact that Houston came to Minny offering the #23rd pick is interesting.Β Yes it gives more ammo for a trade up but there are teams that can simply offer more.Β Β I know that if they do move up they will have to make a huge move to get #3 or #4.Β Within seconds fans will be pulling out the old trade chart and screeming Kwesi gave uo too much.Β Β I am just stating I can see where it is just as likely to fail getting their guy are they are to pull it off.Β Β I see the likelyhood of getting Maye at 25%.Β DanielsΒ maybe 5%.Β McCarthy I would say is 50% chance. Right now every team is war gaming and they should have at least 11 possible scenarios and plans for early Thurday night. Yes it gives more ammo for a trade up but there are teams that can simply offer more.Β Who can offermore than 2 1sts this year? Future picks are always downgraded one full round, so a 2025 1st is valued as a 2nd. Further, 2 1sts this year means the receiving team gets the benefit of the trade THIS year, not 2 years from now.Β There is NO team who can offer more than the Vikings without offering their entire draft, and Dick Butkus is dead now.Β Within seconds fans will be pulling out the old trade chart and screeming Kwesi gave uo too much. DO you really think they care WHAT the fans scream about? The only people they worry about screaming at the are the Wilfs. Never under estimate who is the hungriest. Denver can find a way to offer more if they want. Either in players or a 3rd year of 1st round picks. Kwesi has shown his hand already with having made the trade. Teams have a minimum baseline they know they have to beat.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 26, 2024 17:51:59 GMT -6
Yes it gives more ammo for a trade up but there are teams that can simply offer more. Who can offermore than 2 1sts this year? Future picks are always downgraded one full round, so a 2025 1st is valued as a 2nd. Further, 2 1sts this year means the receiving team gets the benefit of the trade THIS year, not 2 years from now. There is NO team who can offer more than the Vikings without offering their entire draft, and Dick Butkus is dead now. Within seconds fans will be pulling out the old trade chart and screeming Kwesi gave uo too much. DO you really think they care WHAT the fans scream about? The only people they worry about screaming at the are the Wilfs. Never under estimate who is the hungriest. Denver can find a way to offer more if they want. Either in players or a 3rd year of 1st round picks. Kwesi has shown his hand already with having made the trade. Teams have a minimum baseline they know they have to beat. The Vikings can offer 3 1sts in 24' and 25' and Denver can't. Really the only team that is an obstacle for trading up would be the Giants because they have a higher valued pick. Also besides the 4 QB's there are at least 3 super elite WR's, 2 Edge, 2 LT's, and 1 TE. That is 4 QB's and 8 super elite players and that is before you even get into the top 3 or 4 CB's, Murphy, another handful of OL with 1st round grades, another few WR's with 1st round grades. This draft is really good through the entire 1st round and into the 2nd. Drop off will be in the 70's and it is steep with all the underclassman that stayed for another year.
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 26, 2024 18:07:09 GMT -6
Iβm a McCarthy fan, but I for one would not be upset if they didnβt trade up. I donβt think it happens but draft hype is often just that. If we stayed at 11 and someone fellβ¦ great, but otherwise take a stud at 11 or even trade back to mid teens- late teens and pick up maybe a 2nd. And get 2 1st rounders. And still have your 1 for next year!
Iβve not been a fan of KAM but Iβm on record as saying the move to 23 was brilliant (even if he didnβt initiate it) because it βshouldβ make this a win win draft no matter what so long as he doesnβt screw it up like he did with Cine!
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Post by wolfpack87 on Mar 26, 2024 18:38:53 GMT -6
We haven't won a title in half a century, never won a Super Bowl. I don't think anyone is more prepared for failure than Vikings fans. This is our time to shine.
I will be pleasantly surprised with the next crumb of success.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Mar 26, 2024 23:57:47 GMT -6
"All of them except McCarthy have negatives directly pertaining to their play (Even Daniels' ectomorphism) while McCarthy's negative had nothing to do with his skills but with the scheme he was asked to execute. " he is far from perfect IIRC the last perfect guy died over 2,000 years ago, so what's your point? Every pass isn't a TD and every run isn't for 40 yards? He's a 21 year old kid for God's sake. My point is no one -- let me scream this -- NO FUKKIN' ONE! --has named a fault on him besides "he wasn't asked to do as much. Well boo f'n hoo, that's his big negative? Personally I dislike a QB more when they say "He's built like a skinny pole and most of his throws are sidelines" or "He tends to lose his accuracy under pressure" than "he wasn't asked to do as much." Was the entire remark "He wasn't asked to do much because it was obvious he COULDN'T do what a QB is supposed to do?" That would make a huge difference, but if they said it, I missed it. Personally I prefer McCarthy's lack of doing a lot over Daniel's high fractuability quotient or Maye's evidently dancing feet. We'll see who the Vikings even have a chance at, and if the guy they can get even appeals to them enough to draft him. They had their shot at Will Levis last year and passed. They might do it again.
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Mar 27, 2024 5:51:22 GMT -6
"All of them except McCarthy have negatives directly pertaining to their play (Even Daniels' ectomorphism) while McCarthy's negative had nothing to do with his skills but with the scheme he was asked to execute. " he is far from perfect so what's your point? my post was in response to this ridiculous statement "All of them except McCarthy have negatives directly pertaining to their play (Even Daniels' ectomorphism) while McCarthy's negative had nothing to do with his skills but with the scheme he was asked to execute. "
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 27, 2024 6:48:28 GMT -6
I'm going to post my opinion on any rookie QB the Vikings may go after. Almost all NFL scouts, coaches and GM's don't know if a prospect is going to succeed and I don't think that my amateur opinion holds any weight compared to them.
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brick
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Post by brick on Mar 27, 2024 7:13:44 GMT -6
Nothing we are hearing can be trusted this time of year. Tis the season of deception, diversion, distraction, distotion, manuevers, mislead, slight of hand, smoke screens, shams, curveballs, canards, bait and switch, hogwash, hoaxes, spoofs, swindle, canard, conceal, cloak, fabrication, fib, feigning, fibbery, faking, fables, red herrings, equivocation... or any other term that you can think of to throw off teams of their intensions. Skullduggery? Chicanery? Shenanigans? Tomfoolery?
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 27, 2024 15:59:36 GMT -6
I don't think it is a high probability, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings didn't trade up for 1 reason and one reason only....the cupboard is pretty bare (particularly at depth). Here are the last 4 drafts: 2020 Draft- Jefferson, Gladney, Cleveland, Dantzler, Wonnam, Lynch, Dye, Hand2021 Draft - Darrisaw, Mond, Surratt, Davis, Jones II, Nwangwu, Bynum, Robinson
2022 Draft - Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans, Otomewo, Chandler, Lowe, Nailor, Muse
2023 Draft - Addison, Blackmon, Ward, Roy, Hall, McBride The last 4 drafts have been abysmal. Out of the last 4 drafts the Vikings have walked away with: - 4 Tier 1 Players (players who are, or look to be, locks for 2nd contracts (above average players) Jefferson, Darrisaw, Bynum, Addison.
- 7 Tier 2 Players (Players who are seeing the field regularly and being given a chance to develop but are thus far only average to below average or injury riddled and questionable to get a 2nd contract. Not viewed
as a reliable or desirable long term solution) Cleveland, Wonnam, Dantzler, Jones II, Evans, Ingram, Chandler, Blackmon
- Tier 3, players that are struggling or struggled to see the field and or have shown little thus far outside of special teams: The Rest. (may be a few in 23 draft that move up to tier 2, but longshot to Tier 1) Green indicates players already released.
When you are essentially only hitting on 1 player per draft 4 years in a row, it tends to leave the the cupboard somewhat bare. Compounding that issue has been that these 4 poor years consecutively happened while we were turning over our roster and getting rid of all of our marquee veterans (Thielen, Diggs, Cousins, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, Cook, Tomlinson, Joseph, Rhoades, Rudolf). Point being, we lack high end young talent on cheap deals needed to rebuild and replenish the roster. If we trade away 3 1's for a QB this year that leaves us 1 2nd Rd Pick and what looks like 3-3rd Rd picks (though at the bottom end) next year and no 2nd or 3rd this year to fill and build out the roster from rounds most likely to produce Tier 1 players. If you are truly re-building you need picks than that. We will have a fair amount of cap space but FA is largely comprised of Tier 2 players or Tier 1 players that are on the downside of their careers but still getting paid like they are in their primes. In other words you can help your roster in FA, but you can't usually build it that way. I still think they are going to trade up, but I wouldn't view failing to do so as a failure. In fact, there are far more teams that have failed by trading away the farm for a QB than those that didn't. Many of the best teams either selected a QB high with a high pick like Chicago is likely to do or took a QB that fell to them. Those that reach more often than not get burned. I can get on board with either plan so long as they get the right guy in a trade up and don't over pay, and or sit tight and take longshots/projects or pass on great talents for more lower picks. Either way, I think the Vikings are likely to not fail this draft unless their scouting department continues to be awful.
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mg415
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Post by mg415 on Mar 27, 2024 16:19:49 GMT -6
I don't think it is a high probability, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings didn't trade up for 1 reason and one reason only....the cupboard is pretty bare (particularly at depth). Here are the last 4 drafts: 2020 Draft- Jefferson, Gladney, Cleveland, Dantzler, Wonnam, Lynch, Dye, Hand2021 Draft - Darrisaw, Mond, Surratt, Davis, Jones II, Nwangwu, Bynum, Robinson
2022 Draft - Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans, Otomewo, Chandler, Lowe, Nailor, Muse
2023 Draft - Addison, Blackmon, Ward, Roy, Hall, McBride The last 4 drafts have been abysmal. Out of the last 4 drafts the Vikings have walked away with: - 4 Tier 1 Players (players who are, or look to be, locks for 2nd contracts (above average players) Jefferson, Darrisaw, Bynum, Addison.
- 7 Tier 2 Players (Players who are seeing the field regularly and being given a chance to develop but are thus far only average to below average or injury riddled and questionable to get a 2nd contract. Not viewed
as a reliable or desirable long term solution) Cleveland, Wonnam, Dantzler, Jones II, Evans, Ingram, Chandler, Blackmon
- Tier 3, players that are struggling or struggled to see the field and or have shown little thus far outside of special teams: The Rest. (may be a few in 23 draft that move up to tier 2, but longshot to Tier 1) Green indicates players already released.
When you are essentially only hitting on 1 player per draft 4 years in a row, it tends to leave the the cupboard somewhat bare. Compounding that issue has been that these 4 poor years consecutively happened while we were turning over our roster and getting rid of all of our marquee veterans (Thielen, Diggs, Cousins, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, Cook, Tomlinson, Joseph, Rhoades, Rudolf). Point being, we lack high end young talent on cheap deals needed to rebuild and replenish the roster. If we trade away 3 1's for a QB this year that leaves us 1 2nd Rd Pick and what looks like 3-3rd Rd picks (though at the bottom end) next year and no 2nd or 3rd this year to fill and build out the roster from rounds most likely to produce Tier 1 players. If you are truly re-building you need picks than that. We will have a fair amount of cap space but FA is largely comprised of Tier 2 players or Tier 1 players that are on the downside of their careers but still getting paid like they are in their primes. In other words you can help your roster in FA, but you can't usually build it that way. I still think they are going to trade up, but I wouldn't view failing to do so as a failure. In fact, there are far more teams that have failed by trading away the farm for a QB than those that didn't. Many of the best teams either selected a QB high with a high pick like Chicago is likely to do or took a QB that fell to them. Those that reach more often than not get burned. I can get on board with either plan so long as they get the right guy in a trade up and don't over pay, and or sit tight and take longshots/projects or pass on great talents for more lower picks. Either way, I think the Vikings are likely to not fail this draft unless their scouting department continues to be awful. Dont forget there was a big turnover in the scouting department and this is the first draft for the news guys. Maybe old scouts were the problem? We will see.
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Post by PrΰΆ§udhΰΆ§rn on Mar 27, 2024 17:45:11 GMT -6
I don't think it is a high probability, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings didn't trade up for 1 reason and one reason only....the cupboard is pretty bare (particularly at depth). Here are the last 4 drafts: 2020 Draft- Jefferson, Gladney, Cleveland, Dantzler, Wonnam, Lynch, Dye, Hand2021 Draft - Darrisaw, Mond, Surratt, Davis, Jones II, Nwangwu, Bynum, Robinson
2022 Draft - Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans, Otomewo, Chandler, Lowe, Nailor, Muse
2023 Draft - Addison, Blackmon, Ward, Roy, Hall, McBride The last 4 drafts have been abysmal. Out of the last 4 drafts the Vikings have walked away with: - 4 Tier 1 Players (players who are, or look to be, locks for 2nd contracts (above average players) Jefferson, Darrisaw, Bynum, Addison.
- 7 Tier 2 Players (Players who are seeing the field regularly and being given a chance to develop but are thus far only average to below average or injury riddled and questionable to get a 2nd contract. Not viewed
as a reliable or desirable long term solution) Cleveland, Wonnam, Dantzler, Jones II, Evans, Ingram, Chandler, Blackmon
- Tier 3, players that are struggling or struggled to see the field and or have shown little thus far outside of special teams: The Rest. (may be a few in 23 draft that move up to tier 2, but longshot to Tier 1) Green indicates players already released.
When you are essentially only hitting on 1 player per draft 4 years in a row, it tends to leave the the cupboard somewhat bare. Compounding that issue has been that these 4 poor years consecutively happened while we were turning over our roster and getting rid of all of our marquee veterans (Thielen, Diggs, Cousins, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, Cook, Tomlinson, Joseph, Rhoades, Rudolf). Point being, we lack high end young talent on cheap deals needed to rebuild and replenish the roster. If we trade away 3 1's for a QB this year that leaves us 1 2nd Rd Pick and what looks like 3-3rd Rd picks (though at the bottom end) next year and no 2nd or 3rd this year to fill and build out the roster from rounds most likely to produce Tier 1 players. If you are truly re-building you need picks than that. We will have a fair amount of cap space but FA is largely comprised of Tier 2 players or Tier 1 players that are on the downside of their careers but still getting paid like they are in their primes. In other words you can help your roster in FA, but you can't usually build it that way. I still think they are going to trade up, but I wouldn't view failing to do so as a failure. In fact, there are far more teams that have failed by trading away the farm for a QB than those that didn't. Many of the best teams either selected a QB high with a high pick like Chicago is likely to do or took a QB that fell to them. Those that reach more often than not get burned. I can get on board with either plan so long as they get the right guy in a trade up and don't over pay, and or sit tight and take longshots/projects or pass on great talents for more lower picks. Either way, I think the Vikings are likely to not fail this draft unless their scouting department continues to be awful. Dont forget there was a big turnover in the scouting department and this is the first draft for the news guys. Maybe old scouts were the problem? We will see. Hard to blame the scouts without knowing whom they wanted to pick. If I tell you to go to Firehouse Subs and order the Smokehouse Beef & Cheddar Brisket sandwich and you instead order the Chicken Parmesan Meatball sandwich and it sucks is it my fault or yours?
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 27, 2024 18:08:08 GMT -6
Dont forget there was a big turnover in the scouting department and this is the first draft for the news guys. Maybe old scouts were the problem? We will see. Hard to blame the scouts without knowing whom they wanted to pick. If I tell you to go to Firehouse Subs and order the Smokehouse Beef & Cheddar Brisket sandwich and you instead order the Chicken Parmesan Meatball sandwich and it sucks is it my fault or yours? Well they are the one common denominator between 20' & 21' drafts and 22' & 23' drafts.
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mg415
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Post by mg415 on Mar 27, 2024 18:42:18 GMT -6
Dont forget there was a big turnover in the scouting department and this is the first draft for the news guys. Maybe old scouts were the problem? We will see. Hard to blame the scouts without knowing whom they wanted to pick. If I tell you to go to Firehouse Subs and order the Smokehouse Beef & Cheddar Brisket sandwich and you instead order the Chicken Parmesan Meatball sandwich and it sucks is it my fault or yours? Yes that is true. My point was this draft will have new scouts behind the ultimate decision so if the previous scouts could not tell the difference between PB&J and Smokehouse Beef & Cheddar Brisket sandwich things could be better. If we still draft a PB&J it could be the players just were not that good OR those making the ultimate decision are not that good. We at least have a different set of scouts collecting a list of players and maybe there is gem or two in the selections. Time will be the judge.
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