skolvike
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Post by skolvike on May 5, 2024 0:43:48 GMT -6
QB is the most important position on the team and Edge is in the discussion for 2nd most... possibly solving both of those position for the next 10+ years in 1-2 drafts would be incredible. If both McCarthy and Turner are hits on their rookie contracts... it would also mean a 350 million dollar in cap savings over comp veterans for the next 5 years. Brilliant post.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 5, 2024 5:17:04 GMT -6
Phillips is nothing special. He is a guy that plays football and tries really hard. Ok run defender and below average pass rusher. I mean Phillips has an almost 9M cap hit this year so kind of an expensive journeyman. Compare Phillips to your average day 2 draft pick and the return is good to great. Also, I also think it's disingenuous to use the last year of his contract to frame his contract... he signed a 3 year contract averaging 6.5 million per year instead of the inflated last year you are referencing. Paying a proven guy like Phillips less than 3% of the cap is a better bet than hoping a player like Derrick Nnadi. Lastly, Phillips is not a "journeyman"; he played out his 4 year rookie contract, he chose the next team he wanted to play for and is going on his 3rd year with them. He started like 9 games in 4 years before coming here and then has been an ok starter here as a former 3rd rounder I believe? Definition of a journeyman. 6M per is why I said 3 times as much since a 2nd rounder usually averages close to 2M per on rookie deal. 8.8M cap hit is the price of having him as a 3.8M cap hit year 1 of his deal. Truth is he was a risk when we signed him as he was not an established starter when we signed him so not much different then a draft pick and he had an injury year I believe also in his first 4. Phillips looks better to people then he is because he is the best option on this roster. Tillery has had similar production in his career, but is viewed as a bust because he was a 1st rounder.
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Post by dougpaschal on May 5, 2024 8:01:22 GMT -6
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Post by dougpaschal on May 5, 2024 8:13:36 GMT -6
Journeyman nose guard Harrison Phillipsβ¦..reporting for duty, sir
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vr46
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Post by vr46 on May 5, 2024 8:38:27 GMT -6
Too bad they did it by giving away days 2 and 3 for the next 2 years. EDIT: BTW, the Bears won the first day of the draft handily. Bears had the 1st and 9th overall. Their entire management team should be fired if they didn't, for God's sake. Tell Doug.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 5, 2024 8:50:28 GMT -6
Journeyman nose guard Harrison Phillipsβ¦..reporting for duty, sir Phillips had a nice season last year Doug, but there are a couple reasons for the stats one is he works hard, another because he can get steamrolled by more talented interior OL & double teams, most teams attacked the middle of the Vikings line for a reason last year, and the run D as a whole was not good between the tackles even with his hard play. In reality he would be better suited on running downs to be playing the big 3-4-5T/DT next to a true 2 gapper. Teams had success running at the middle of the line last year as hard as he played. he plays his role as best he can, but he is and was signed to be a 2 down 1T 4-3 NG. They scheme him that way at times, but for them to run the true hybrid they want they need someone who is more of a true 3-4 NT.
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Post by 1angryviking on May 5, 2024 8:59:27 GMT -6
Compare Phillips to your average day 2 draft pick and the return is good to great. Also, I also think it's disingenuous to use the last year of his contract to frame his contract... he signed a 3 year contract averaging 6.5 million per year instead of the inflated last year you are referencing. Paying a proven guy like Phillips less than 3% of the cap is a better bet than hoping a player like Derrick Nnadi. Lastly, Phillips is not a "journeyman"; he played out his 4 year rookie contract, he chose the next team he wanted to play for and is going on his 3rd year with them. He started like 9 games in 4 years before coming here and then has been an ok starter here as a former 3rd rounder I believe? Definition of a journeyman. 6M per is why I said 3 times as much since a 2nd rounder usually averages close to 2M per on rookie deal. 8.8M cap hit is the price of having him as a 3.8M cap hit year 1 of his deal. Truth is he was a risk when we signed him as he was not an established starter when we signed him so not much different then a draft pick and he had an injury year I believe also in his first 4. Phillips looks better to people then he is because he is the best option on this roster. Tillery has had similar production in his career, but is viewed as a bust because he was a 1st rounder. - We both know that journeyman typically references a player like Josh Dobbs who has been on about 25% of the league rosters at some point in time - Phillips looks worse to some people because he has no help along the DL in MN - Phillips and Tillery are not remotely close to similar; Phillips has 200 tackles, 26 stuffs and 5 sacks over the past 3 years compared to Tillery's 50 tackles, 3 stuffs and 3 sacks
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Post by dougpaschal on May 5, 2024 9:06:33 GMT -6
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Post by dougpaschal on May 5, 2024 9:26:17 GMT -6
He started like 9 games in 4 years before coming here and then has been an ok starter here as a former 3rd rounder I believe? Definition of a journeyman. 6M per is why I said 3 times as much since a 2nd rounder usually averages close to 2M per on rookie deal. 8.8M cap hit is the price of having him as a 3.8M cap hit year 1 of his deal. Truth is he was a risk when we signed him as he was not an established starter when we signed him so not much different then a draft pick and he had an injury year I believe also in his first 4. Phillips looks better to people then he is because he is the best option on this roster. Tillery has had similar production in his career, but is viewed as a bust because he was a 1st rounder. - We both know that journeyman typically references a player like Josh Dobbs who has been on about 25% of the league rosters at some point in time - Phillips and Tillery are not remotely close to similar; Phillips has 200 tackles, 26 stuffs and 5 sacks over the past 3 years compared to Tillery's 50 tackles, 3 stuffs and 3 sacks
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Post by dougpaschal on May 5, 2024 9:41:58 GMT -6
in case somehow you missed how good H. Phillips was last year
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 5, 2024 9:55:59 GMT -6
He started like 9 games in 4 years before coming here and then has been an ok starter here as a former 3rd rounder I believe? Definition of a journeyman. 6M per is why I said 3 times as much since a 2nd rounder usually averages close to 2M per on rookie deal. 8.8M cap hit is the price of having him as a 3.8M cap hit year 1 of his deal. Truth is he was a risk when we signed him as he was not an established starter when we signed him so not much different then a draft pick and he had an injury year I believe also in his first 4. Phillips looks better to people then he is because he is the best option on this roster. Tillery has had similar production in his career, but is viewed as a bust because he was a 1st rounder. - We both know that journeyman typically references a player like Josh Dobbs who has been on about 25% of the league rosters at some point in time - Phillips looks worse to some people because he has no help along the DL in MN - Phillips and Tillery are not remotely close to similar; Phillips has 200 tackles, 26 stuffs and 5 sacks over the past 3 years compared to Tillery's 50 tackles, 3 stuffs and 3 sacks Journeyman is an average starter not a backup... Maybe in the case of high end backup QB's like Minshew it gets thrown around. Journeyman usually refers to average starters. Think you missed a 50 tackle season with 4.5 sacks fpr Tillery in there he played for 2 teams in 2022. Mixed bag for Phillips in he had career high in tackles and sacks, but lowest TFL (besides his 2 injury plagued years in Buffalo) and his QB hits were in line with career average though he played most snaps of his career I believe. There is absolutely nothing special about Phillips except effort and that I applaud. P.S, they should be a bit different since one is a NG and the other a DE/DT.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 5, 2024 9:58:28 GMT -6
- We both know that journeyman typically references a player like Josh Dobbs who has been on about 25% of the league rosters at some point in time - Phillips and Tillery are not remotely close to similar; Phillips has 200 tackles, 26 stuffs and 5 sacks over the past 3 years compared to Tillery's 50 tackles, 3 stuffs and 3 sacks Strange guy to root for when I think Roy taking that spot by the horns would be in the best interest of the team.
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Post by 1angryviking on May 5, 2024 10:20:26 GMT -6
- We both know that journeyman typically references a player like Josh Dobbs who has been on about 25% of the league rosters at some point in time - Phillips looks worse to some people because he has no help along the DL in MN - Phillips and Tillery are not remotely close to similar; Phillips has 200 tackles, 26 stuffs and 5 sacks over the past 3 years compared to Tillery's 50 tackles, 3 stuffs and 3 sacks Journeyman is an average starter not a backup... Maybe in the case of high end backup QB's like Minshew it gets thrown around. Journeyman usually refers to average starters. Think you missed a 50 tackle season with 4.5 sacks fpr Tillery in there he played for 2 teams in 2022. Mixed bag for Phillips in he had career high in tackles and sacks, but lowest TFL (besides his 2 injury plagued years in Buffalo) and his QB hits were in line with career average though he played most snaps of his career I believe. There is absolutely nothing special about Phillips except effort and that I applaud. P.S, they should be a bit different since one is a NG and the other a DE/DT. Journeymen refers to transient players that bounce from one team to the next. If you want to define it as an "average" starter then it includes about 80% of NFL starters and there is no reason to hang that label on them. Phillips was not brought in to be a pass rusher; he was brought in for the run defense role he is excelling at.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 5, 2024 10:42:08 GMT -6
Journeyman is an average starter not a backup... Maybe in the case of high end backup QB's like Minshew it gets thrown around. Journeyman usually refers to average starters. Think you missed a 50 tackle season with 4.5 sacks fpr Tillery in there he played for 2 teams in 2022. Mixed bag for Phillips in he had career high in tackles and sacks, but lowest TFL (besides his 2 injury plagued years in Buffalo) and his QB hits were in line with career average though he played most snaps of his career I believe. There is absolutely nothing special about Phillips except effort and that I applaud. P.S, they should be a bit different since one is a NG and the other a DE/DT. Journeymen refers to transient players that bounce from one team to the next. If you want to define it as an "average" starter then it includes about 80% of NFL starters and there is no reason to hang that label on them. Phillips was not brought in to be a pass rusher; he was brought in for the run defense role he is excelling at. So you defined it as a transient starter and then mention Phillips is a transient starter... interesting... Average starter, lunchpail guy, journeyman, and other terms are all synonymous.
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Post by 1angryviking on May 5, 2024 11:44:06 GMT -6
Journeymen refers to transient players that bounce from one team to the next. If you want to define it as an "average" starter then it includes about 80% of NFL starters and there is no reason to hang that label on them. Phillips was not brought in to be a pass rusher; he was brought in for the run defense role he is excelling at. So you defined it as a transient starter and then mention Phillips is a transient starter... interesting... Average starter, lunchpail guy, journeyman, and other terms are all synonymous. Nah, I never said Phillips was a "transient starter"; but, I do find it interesting that you chose to add denigrating label to him. You defined Phillips as a journeymen while I view a journeymen as a transient player that needs to jump from team to team because they can't establish a job. Phillips was a good enough player to earn his entire rookie contract for a team that couldn't afford to retain him on a veteran contract. Once Phillips got his first chance to sign with a team of his own choosing he signed with MN as a run stuffing DT and has excelled at that role. The Vikings could choose to cut him and save 6.5 million.
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