comet52
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 1,612
|
Rattler
Apr 7, 2024 10:53:25 GMT -6
Post by comet52 on Apr 7, 2024 10:53:25 GMT -6
My take after watching a few games of Rattler: Footwork and mechanics ok, can run it a bit but not a big running threat. Can't escape pressure very well. Makes some ill-advised throws under pressure which will turn into picks at the NFL level. Arm strength and accuracy are average. Pocket awareness average. Mostly a one-read guy but does look to multiple targets at times which is a plus. Low level backup or practice squad at best.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 11, 2024 17:06:18 GMT -6
Post by PrΰΆ§udhΰΆ§rn on Apr 11, 2024 17:06:18 GMT -6
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 10:36:08 GMT -6
Post by redbird87 on Apr 12, 2024 10:36:08 GMT -6
Been thinking about this more and more. If the asking price is high and demand for QB so strongβ¦ if 6 QBβs are going to go in Rd1 and early to bootβ¦ that means there is going to be top 15 talent still on the board in the early 20βs. Why not trade back from 11 to somewhere in the Mid Teens, go Def or OL with 1st 2 picks and use the 2nd you get for trading back to take Rattler. You might have to throw in a 3rd or 4th to move up but probably not if 6 QBβs are already off the board. The knock on the kid from everything I read is that heβs only 6β. But heβs probably got the 2nd or 3rd most arm talent of all the QBs in the draft. Heβs a pocket passer, heβs got good pocket movement and presence, heβs used to operating under pressure and heβs got the aggressive nature everyone here has been clamoring for. The 2 knocks on the guy are his Ht and Aggressivenessβ¦ and if thatβs the worst of this kids game, Iβd be more than happy to spend a 2nd on the guy while selecting 2 Studs in Rd1 and if it doesnβt pan out you can go QB in Rd 1 next year when the competition isnβt near as high. I see the overriding demand for QB this year creating huge opportunities for non top 10 teams to get top 10 talent without having to trade up to get it. And if Rattler can be had in Rd. 2β¦.Im not so sure he wonβt end up being the 3rd best QB in this draft anyway if he goes to the right team (of which we are a pretty good fit). Let's trade back now to get a 2nd after trading up and spending two 2nds, and let's add a 3rd and a 4th just to make us look even dumber. Then let's spend that largess on the 5th or 6th best QB as rated by just about everyone in the NFL world. You know red, occasionally you have a great blind squirrel act and come up with a very good nut of an idea. This one's just a piece of bunny poop that you think feels like a nut. Without trying to rehash the entire post, why do you think next year's competition for a QB won't nearly be as high when there will be just as many teams drafting 1-5 as there always is, there will be just as many old QBs retiring or being released, just as many rookies playing out their contracts because they failed, and just as many this year rooks who didn't make it. None of these things ever change. The only difference in this year is the number of excellent QB prospects available. The only ones I've heard about for next year is Lewis and Sanders. IMO the competition next year will be much more intense, not less. I'm not saying pass on one of the more "sought after" qb's if they fall to you at 11....by all means take them. But I'm not a fan of trading up into a sellers market at any cost because you are desperate. That's just stupid especially when there are multiple marquee players at positions with higher success probability you'd be foregoing to do it. Most of the QB's expected to go in the top 10 are going to be way over drafted so giving up 23 and next year's 1 is a ridiculous expense. When KC traded for Mahomes they gave up a current year 3 and a following year 1 but they already had an established team and knew that 1st would be toward the back end of the draft. That's a reasonable cost....what we expect to pay to move is not and history will point to the fact it rarely works out well. I think people are too wowed by stats of QB's at the college level and I think it is why scouting is so challenging. What type of competition were they playing, how good was their supporting cast, how much pressure did they face, what type of scheme did they play in, how much adversity did they have to deal with.....these all have a huge impacts. What you can say for Rattler is he's proven he can handle adversity (he got knocked from the highest perch, watched his life as a young adult get picked apart, grew up, reinvented himself and reclaimed his status as a top QB), he's proven he can operate under pressure, he's proven he can be successful in less than optimal circumstances and he's been able to have success without a great supporting cast and all while doing it against some of the best competition in college football. There is a lot to be said for that. Mix in that he does have a very good arm and again I'm not so sure he couldn't wind up being a very good QB in the right situation. My point is none of these QB's are locks...even Williams. And, what these kids have between the ears, the way they deal with adversity, the way they handle pressure has just as much to do with success as arm talent (which he has). Take a look around the league at all the QB's who are drafted high and fail, it isn't because they lack arm talent....it's because they can't handle the mental aspect of the game. And before people jump down my throat....who would have thought Purdy was going to be a better QB than Darnald, Mayfield, Trubisky and all the other QB's that went #1 and didn't live up to expectations. I'm not saying that Rattler is going to be the best QB in the draft, but if you stay at 11 and one of the QB's you covet falls to you great, but if not you get a shot at 2 elite talents in the 1st round and can still pick up Rattler in the 2nd/3rd without giving up next years #1 to boot. If their coaches and scouting department are as improved at prospect analysis as we hope then this should be a real win, and if it isn't improved then why would you want to trade away 3 #1's and let the same group pick a QB (which is the highest fail rate of any position)? Last, everyone is going on about how much cap we have next year. Yes this is a good thing, but you don't build great teams through Free Agency with any long term window and we don't have the team to do that right now. There are only 4 reasons people are usually in free agency 1) you aren't considered good enough to keep, 2) you want too much money for your play, 3) you are old and declining, 4) you are talented but can't stay healthy. Once in a while you get a FA that really turns into a long term Gem (Think Lindval), but more often than not, they are players that have limited life or are just slightly above average (Think Dalvin Tom). If you want to build a team that can have a long window, you have to do it through draft where you can get difference makers playing at least part of their career on cheap contracts. I'm fine trading up if the cost is right, but if it costs 3 1's...that is stupid.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 10:51:42 GMT -6
Post by redbird87 on Apr 12, 2024 10:51:42 GMT -6
Let's trade back now to get a 2nd after trading up and spending two 2nds, and let's add a 3rd and a 4th just to make us look even dumber. Then let's spend that largess on the 5th or 6th best QB as rated by just about everyone in the NFL world. You know red, occasionally you have a great blind squirrel act and come up with a very good nut of an idea. This one's just a piece of bunny poop that you think feels like a nut. Without trying to rehash the entire post, why do you think next year's competition for a QB won't nearly be as high when there will be just as many teams drafting 1-5 as there always is, there will be just as many old QBs retiring or being released, just as many rookies playing out their contracts because they failed, and just as many this year rooks who didn't make it. None of these things ever change. The only difference in this year is the number of excellent QB prospects available. The only ones I've heard about for next year is Lewis and Sanders. IMO the competition next year will be much more intense, not less. I'm not saying pass on one of the more "sought after" qb's if they fall to you at 11....by all means take them. But I'm not a fan of trading up into a sellers market at any cost because you are desperate. That's just stupid especially when there are multiple marquee players at positions with higher success probability you'd be foregoing to do it. Most of the QB's expected to go in the top 10 are going to be way over drafted so giving up 23 and next year's 1 is a ridiculous expense. When KC traded for Mahomes they gave up a current year 3 and a following year 1 but they already had an established team and knew that 1st would be toward the back end of the draft. That's a reasonable cost....what we expect to pay to move is not and history will point to the fact it rarely works out well. I think people are too wowed by stats of QB's at the college level and I think it is why scouting is so challenging. What type of competition were they playing, how good was their supporting cast, how much pressure did they face, what type of scheme did they play in, how much adversity did they have to deal with.....these all have a huge impacts. What you can say for Rattler is he's proven he can handle adversity (he got knocked from the highest perch, watched his life as a young adult get picked apart, grew up, reinvented himself and reclaimed his status as a top QB), he's proven he can operate under pressure, he's proven he can be successful in less than optimal circumstances and he's been able to have success without a great supporting cast and all while doing it against some of the best competition in college football. There is a lot to be said for that. Mix in that he does have a very good arm and again I'm not so sure he couldn't wind up being a very good QB in the right situation. My point is none of these QB's are locks...even Williams. And, what these kids have between the ears, the way they deal with adversity, the way they handle pressure has just as much to do with success as arm talent (which he has). Take a look around the league at all the QB's who are drafted high and fail, it isn't because they lack arm talent....it's because they can't handle the mental aspect of the game. And before people jump down my throat....who would have thought Purdy was going to be a better QB than Darnald, Mayfield, Trubisky and all the other QB's that went #1 and didn't live up to expectations. I'm not saying that Rattler is going to be the best QB in the draft, but if you stay at 11 and one of the QB's you covet falls to you great, but if not you get a shot at 2 elite talents in the 1st round and can still pick up Rattler in the 2nd/3rd without giving up next years #1 to boot. If their coaches and scouting department are as improved at prospect analysis as we hope then this should be a real win, and if it isn't improved then why would you want to trade away 3 #1's and let the same group pick a QB (which is the highest fail rate of any position)? Last, everyone is going on about how much cap we have next year. Yes this is a good thing, but you don't build great teams through Free Agency with any long term window and we don't have the team to do that right now. There are only 4 reasons people are usually in free agency 1) you aren't considered good enough to keep, 2) you want too much money for your play, 3) you are old and declining, 4) you are talented but can't stay healthy. Once in a while you get a FA that really turns into a long term Gem (Think Lindval), but more often than not, they are players that have limited life or are just slightly above average (Think Dalvin Tom). If you want to build a team that can have a long window, you have to do it through draft where you can get difference makers playing at least part of their career on cheap contracts. I'm fine trading up if the cost is right, but if it costs 3 1's...that is stupid. To clarify my comment that we don't have the team to try to win with a big FA splash. We have 2 Elite players in JJ and Darrisaw, we have 2 very good players in Hochenson and Addison (but no idea if Hochenson will be as good post surgery. His ability to separate is the only thing that really makes him special). Not a single other player on the team right now has proven to be anything more than above average at best and we have a lot of players who are barely average starting. That isn't a team that is on the cusp where 1-2 high priced FA make you a contender. This team really needs to hit on draft picks the next 2 years and trading away 3 first round picks on 1 player really hurts that cause. If the cost is 2 and we get the guy we really want, I'm ok with that, but 3 is simply too much.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 10:53:39 GMT -6
Post by smoot4208 on Apr 12, 2024 10:53:39 GMT -6
Let's trade back now to get a 2nd after trading up and spending two 2nds, and let's add a 3rd and a 4th just to make us look even dumber. Then let's spend that largess on the 5th or 6th best QB as rated by just about everyone in the NFL world. You know red, occasionally you have a great blind squirrel act and come up with a very good nut of an idea. This one's just a piece of bunny poop that you think feels like a nut. Without trying to rehash the entire post, why do you think next year's competition for a QB won't nearly be as high when there will be just as many teams drafting 1-5 as there always is, there will be just as many old QBs retiring or being released, just as many rookies playing out their contracts because they failed, and just as many this year rooks who didn't make it. None of these things ever change. The only difference in this year is the number of excellent QB prospects available. The only ones I've heard about for next year is Lewis and Sanders. IMO the competition next year will be much more intense, not less. I'm not saying pass on one of the more "sought after" qb's if they fall to you at 11....by all means take them. But I'm not a fan of trading up into a sellers market at any cost because you are desperate. That's just stupid especially when there are multiple marquee players at positions with higher success probability you'd be foregoing to do it. Most of the QB's expected to go in the top 10 are going to be way over drafted so giving up 23 and next year's 1 is a ridiculous expense. When KC traded for Mahomes they gave up a current year 3 and a following year 1 but they already had an established team and knew that 1st would be toward the back end of the draft. That's a reasonable cost....what we expect to pay to move is not and history will point to the fact it rarely works out well. I think people are too wowed by stats of QB's at the college level and I think it is why scouting is so challenging. What type of competition were they playing, how good was their supporting cast, how much pressure did they face, what type of scheme did they play in, how much adversity did they have to deal with.....these all have a huge impacts. What you can say for Rattler is he's proven he can handle adversity (he got knocked from the highest perch, watched his life as a young adult get picked apart, grew up, reinvented himself and reclaimed his status as a top QB), he's proven he can operate under pressure, he's proven he can be successful in less than optimal circumstances and he's been able to have success without a great supporting cast and all while doing it against some of the best competition in college football. There is a lot to be said for that. Mix in that he does have a very good arm and again I'm not so sure he couldn't wind up being a very good QB in the right situation. My point is none of these QB's are locks...even Williams. And, what these kids have between the ears, the way they deal with adversity, the way they handle pressure has just as much to do with success as arm talent (which he has). Take a look around the league at all the QB's who are drafted high and fail, it isn't because they lack arm talent....it's because they can't handle the mental aspect of the game. And before people jump down my throat....who would have thought Purdy was going to be a better QB than Darnald, Mayfield, Trubisky and all the other QB's that went #1 and didn't live up to expectations. I'm not saying that Rattler is going to be the best QB in the draft, but if you stay at 11 and one of the QB's you covet falls to you great, but if not you get a shot at 2 elite talents in the 1st round and can still pick up Rattler in the 2nd/3rd without giving up next years #1 to boot. If their coaches and scouting department are as improved at prospect analysis as we hope then this should be a real win, and if it isn't improved then why would you want to trade away 3 #1's and let the same group pick a QB (which is the highest fail rate of any position)? Last, everyone is going on about how much cap we have next year. Yes this is a good thing, but you don't build great teams through Free Agency with any long term window and we don't have the team to do that right now. There are only 4 reasons people are usually in free agency 1) you aren't considered good enough to keep, 2) you want too much money for your play, 3) you are old and declining, 4) you are talented but can't stay healthy. Once in a while you get a FA that really turns into a long term Gem (Think Lindval), but more often than not, they are players that have limited life or are just slightly above average (Think Dalvin Tom). If you want to build a team that can have a long window, you have to do it through draft where you can get difference makers playing at least part of their career on cheap contracts. I'm fine trading up if the cost is right, but if it costs 3 1's...that is stupid. Excellent post and well thought out. I think Im in the same window as well. We have too many holes to fill to gamble 3 1st round picks at a QB. Im ok packaging our 2 1st this year, but agree, if it entails next year's 1st, Im out.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 12:05:05 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by odinswrath on Apr 12, 2024 12:05:05 GMT -6
I'm not seeing a team win "a lot" of holes. I think they did a great job solidifying the defensive line and linebackers in free agency. Safety position is solid in my opinion. Could use one more CB in the draft. WR, RB and TE are solid. Yes we can use another guard in the draft. We need to go all in and get the QB of the future. The other positions can be filled in round 4 and later in a deep draft like this. They can also continue to sign veteran free agents after the draft for depth.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 15:03:02 GMT -6
Post by redbird87 on Apr 12, 2024 15:03:02 GMT -6
I'm not seeing a team win "a lot" of holes. I think they did a great job solidifying the defensive line and linebackers in free agency. Safety position is solid in my opinion. Could use one more CB in the draft. WR, RB and TE are solid. Yes we can use another guard in the draft. We need to go all in and get the QB of the future. The other positions can be filled in round 4 and later in a deep draft like this. They can also continue to sign veteran free agents after the draft for depth. I'm not implying our free agency signings have been bad. Hopefully the FO did well with some of these signings and these guys can stay healthy. But bottom line, while our D was improved last year .... as the year went on, OC's figured out how to exploit our lack of talent and depth that we had been masking all year. The FA signings on D simply replaced the higher end defensive talent we lost and net net is a wash at best and most likely a slight down downgrade talent wise. I really like Metellus and Bynum and thought they both had a very good year and flourished in this new scheme, but they aren't the type of players OC's are having to game plan around. Griffin is perhaps the only real upgrade to the D in terms of positional impact that would be a "hole" improved.....and it isn't like Griffin is a world beater. If he was he wouldn't be on his 3rd team in 3 years. So while getting some younger players is a move we needed to make, anyone who thinks the roster as it stands today is better than what we marched out last year is simply in denial. If we have a great draft that could go a long way toward filling those holes, but if we don't start drafting to fill holes until round 4 that's going to be really hard to do. It hard to build a championship roster with only 4th, 5th and 6th round picks.
|
|
tavike
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 4,131
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 15:42:57 GMT -6
Post by tavike on Apr 12, 2024 15:42:57 GMT -6
I'm not saying pass on one of the more "sought after" qb's if they fall to you at 11....by all means take them. But I'm not a fan of trading up into a sellers market at any cost because you are desperate. That's just stupid especially when there are multiple marquee players at positions with higher success probability you'd be foregoing to do it. Most of the QB's expected to go in the top 10 are going to be way over drafted so giving up 23 and next year's 1 is a ridiculous expense. When KC traded for Mahomes they gave up a current year 3 and a following year 1 but they already had an established team and knew that 1st would be toward the back end of the draft. That's a reasonable cost....what we expect to pay to move is not and history will point to the fact it rarely works out well. I think people are too wowed by stats of QB's at the college level and I think it is why scouting is so challenging. What type of competition were they playing, how good was their supporting cast, how much pressure did they face, what type of scheme did they play in, how much adversity did they have to deal with.....these all have a huge impacts. What you can say for Rattler is he's proven he can handle adversity (he got knocked from the highest perch, watched his life as a young adult get picked apart, grew up, reinvented himself and reclaimed his status as a top QB), he's proven he can operate under pressure, he's proven he can be successful in less than optimal circumstances and he's been able to have success without a great supporting cast and all while doing it against some of the best competition in college football. There is a lot to be said for that. Mix in that he does have a very good arm and again I'm not so sure he couldn't wind up being a very good QB in the right situation. My point is none of these QB's are locks...even Williams. And, what these kids have between the ears, the way they deal with adversity, the way they handle pressure has just as much to do with success as arm talent (which he has). Take a look around the league at all the QB's who are drafted high and fail, it isn't because they lack arm talent....it's because they can't handle the mental aspect of the game. And before people jump down my throat....who would have thought Purdy was going to be a better QB than Darnald, Mayfield, Trubisky and all the other QB's that went #1 and didn't live up to expectations. I'm not saying that Rattler is going to be the best QB in the draft, but if you stay at 11 and one of the QB's you covet falls to you great, but if not you get a shot at 2 elite talents in the 1st round and can still pick up Rattler in the 2nd/3rd without giving up next years #1 to boot. If their coaches and scouting department are as improved at prospect analysis as we hope then this should be a real win, and if it isn't improved then why would you want to trade away 3 #1's and let the same group pick a QB (which is the highest fail rate of any position)? Last, everyone is going on about how much cap we have next year. Yes this is a good thing, but you don't build great teams through Free Agency with any long term window and we don't have the team to do that right now. There are only 4 reasons people are usually in free agency 1) you aren't considered good enough to keep, 2) you want too much money for your play, 3) you are old and declining, 4) you are talented but can't stay healthy. Once in a while you get a FA that really turns into a long term Gem (Think Lindval), but more often than not, they are players that have limited life or are just slightly above average (Think Dalvin Tom). If you want to build a team that can have a long window, you have to do it through draft where you can get difference makers playing at least part of their career on cheap contracts. I'm fine trading up if the cost is right, but if it costs 3 1's...that is stupid. To clarify my comment that we don't have the team to try to win with a big FA splash. We have 2 Elite players in JJ and Darrisaw, we have 2 very good players in Hochenson and Addison (but no idea if Hochenson will be as good post surgery. His ability to separate is the only thing that really makes him special). Not a single other player on the team right now has proven to be anything more than above average at best and we have a lot of players who are barely average starting. That isn't a team that is on the cusp where 1-2 high priced FA make you a contender. This team really needs to hit on draft picks the next 2 years and trading away 3 first round picks on 1 player really hurts that cause. If the cost is 2 and we get the guy we really want, I'm ok with that, but 3 is simply too much. After extending Darrisaw and Jefferson the Vikings are still projected to have over 60 to 70 million in cap space next year. I'll take my chances trading 3 first rounders.
|
|
tavike
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 4,131
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 15:53:26 GMT -6
Post by tavike on Apr 12, 2024 15:53:26 GMT -6
I'm not seeing a team win "a lot" of holes. I think they did a great job solidifying the defensive line and linebackers in free agency. Safety position is solid in my opinion. Could use one more CB in the draft. WR, RB and TE are solid. Yes we can use another guard in the draft. We need to go all in and get the QB of the future. The other positions can be filled in round 4 and later in a deep draft like this. They can also continue to sign veteran free agents after the draft for depth. I'm not implying our free agency signings have been bad. Hopefully the FO did well with some of these signings and these guys can stay healthy. But bottom line, while our D was improved last year .... as the year went on, OC's figured out how to exploit our lack of talent and depth that we had been masking all year. The FA signings on D simply replaced the higher end defensive talent we lost and net net is a wash at best and most likely a slight down downgrade talent wise. I really like Metellus and Bynum and thought they both had a very good year and flourished in this new scheme, but they aren't the type of players OC's are having to game plan around. Griffin is perhaps the only real upgrade to the D in terms of positional impact that would be a "hole" improved.....and it isn't like Griffin is a world beater. If he was he wouldn't be on his 3rd team in 3 years. So while getting some younger players is a move we needed to make, anyone who thinks the roster as it stands today is better than what we marched out last year is simply in denial. If we have a great draft that could go a long way toward filling those holes, but if we don't start drafting to fill holes until round 4 that's going to be really hard to do. It hard to build a championship roster with only 4th, 5th and 6th round picks. Van Ginkel is better than wonum, Cashman is better than Hicks, Griffin is an add. Grenard is very close to Hunter. I think the defense will be better.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 16:52:14 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by odinswrath on Apr 12, 2024 16:52:14 GMT -6
I'm not implying our free agency signings have been bad.Β Hopefully the FO did well with some of these signings and these guys can stay healthy.Β But bottom line, while our D was improved last year .... as the year went on, OC's figured out how to exploit our lack of talent and depth that we had been masking all year.Β The FA signings on D simply replaced the higher end defensive talent we lost and net net is a wash at best and most likely a slight down downgrade talent wise. I really like Metellus and Bynum and thought they both had a very good year and flourished in this new scheme, but they aren't the type of players OC's are having to game plan around.Β Β Β Β Griffin is perhaps the only real upgrade to the D in terms of positional impact that would be a "hole" improved.....and it isn't like Griffin is a world beater.Β If he was he wouldn't be on his 3rd team in 3 years.Β So while getting some younger players is a move we needed to make, anyone who thinks the roster as it stands today is better than what we marched out last year is simply in denial.Β If we have a great draft that could go a long way toward filling those holes, but if we don't start drafting to fill holes until round 4 that's going to be really hard to do.Β It hard to build a championship roster with only 4th, 5th and 6th round picks.Β Β Van Ginkel is better than wonum, Cashman is better than Hicks, Griffin is an add.Β Grenard is very close to Hunter.Β I think the defense will be better.Β Β Β I also like the D-line additions of Jerry Tillery, Jonah Williams and Jihad Ward which I think are much more solid than Lowry and Tonga. Better overall depth to add to Harrison Phillips, J Roy and Bullard. And I think injuries played a bigger role in the defense issues at the end of the year more than other teams figuring out the scheme. We lost Wonnum, Hicks, Byron Murphy, Lowry, Evans and Blackmon for quite a few snaps over the last 4 weeks. Losing Murphy was probably the worst one.
|
|
bosshogg
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 2,099
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 17:13:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bosshogg on Apr 12, 2024 17:13:04 GMT -6
My thought is you draft QBs until you find your guy and then build around that guy for hopefully the next decade.
Draft one early and Rattler later round if he falls I would not mind.
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 17:48:06 GMT -6
Post by redbird87 on Apr 12, 2024 17:48:06 GMT -6
I'm not implying our free agency signings have been bad. Hopefully the FO did well with some of these signings and these guys can stay healthy. But bottom line, while our D was improved last year .... as the year went on, OC's figured out how to exploit our lack of talent and depth that we had been masking all year. The FA signings on D simply replaced the higher end defensive talent we lost and net net is a wash at best and most likely a slight down downgrade talent wise. I really like Metellus and Bynum and thought they both had a very good year and flourished in this new scheme, but they aren't the type of players OC's are having to game plan around. Griffin is perhaps the only real upgrade to the D in terms of positional impact that would be a "hole" improved.....and it isn't like Griffin is a world beater. If he was he wouldn't be on his 3rd team in 3 years. So while getting some younger players is a move we needed to make, anyone who thinks the roster as it stands today is better than what we marched out last year is simply in denial. If we have a great draft that could go a long way toward filling those holes, but if we don't start drafting to fill holes until round 4 that's going to be really hard to do. It hard to build a championship roster with only 4th, 5th and 6th round picks. Van Ginkel is better than wonum, Cashman is better than Hicks, Griffin is an add. Grenard is very close to Hunter. I think the defense will be better. I said Griffin is an add, but it's not like we added a pro bowl shut down corner....he's a filler. The biggest win of signing Griffin is it allows Murphy to move to slot where he is better suited to play. As for the others....I like Grenard, but he isn't even in the same hemisphere as Hunter in overall game. Cashman better than Hicks....doubtful. Due to age it is possible he'll play better than him in 24, but if comparing to Hick's life's work and how he played in 23 it's highly unlikely Cashman proves better. At 27, if Cashman was as good as you believe and on the cusp of pro bowl levels of play, why would (nope) Ryans let the guy leave? It wasn't like his asking price was breaking the bank and it isn't like Houston isn't trying to win right now? He either thought he over achieved, has limitations to his game or won't be able to stay healthy. I put Wonnam and Van Ginkel as a toss up. If you are asking about the prior year versions of Wonnam I'd agree, but Wonnam played outstanding last year in a system that suited him better. I don't think we let him walk if he hadn't gotten injured. We have very little depth at DE and Wonnam may not be fully healed from his injury by the start of the season and that likely sealed his fate with us. VanGinkel has a good motor, has experience in the system already and has a mostly clean injury history so it was a natural transition. VG has a great motor, but Wonnam is much bigger and stronger. Tie. Again, I'm not dogging the players we signed, I think we did what we could with cap we had to work but the defense at best is = to last year and last year wasn't good enough. There is still offseason to go, so maybe we make another good signing but so far we have just as many holes as last year and we still are a ? at G, WR, NT and QB and have thin depth everywhere but S. And that doesn't address the rest of the OL that can't win in the trenches when they need to.
|
|
tavike
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 4,131
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 18:48:16 GMT -6
Post by tavike on Apr 12, 2024 18:48:16 GMT -6
Van Ginkel is better than wonum, Cashman is better than Hicks, Griffin is an add. Grenard is very close to Hunter. I think the defense will be better. I said Griffin is an add, but it's not like we added a pro bowl shut down corner....he's a filler. The biggest win of signing Griffin is it allows Murphy to move to slot where he is better suited to play. As for the others....I like Grenard, but he isn't even in the same hemisphere as Hunter in overall game. Cashman better than Hicks....doubtful. Due to age it is possible he'll play better than him in 24, but if comparing to Hick's life's work and how he played in 23 it's highly unlikely Cashman proves better. At 27, if Cashman was as good as you believe and on the cusp of pro bowl levels of play, why would (nope) Ryans let the guy leave? It wasn't like his asking price was breaking the bank and it isn't like Houston isn't trying to win right now? He either thought he over achieved, has limitations to his game or won't be able to stay healthy. I put Wonnam and Van Ginkel as a toss up. If you are asking about the prior year versions of Wonnam I'd agree, but Wonnam played outstanding last year in a system that suited him better. I don't think we let him walk if he hadn't gotten injured. We have very little depth at DE and Wonnam may not be fully healed from his injury by the start of the season and that likely sealed his fate with us. VanGinkel has a good motor, has experience in the system already and has a mostly clean injury history so it was a natural transition. VG has a great motor, but Wonnam is much bigger and stronger. Tie. Again, I'm not dogging the players we signed, I think we did what we could with cap we had to work but the defense at best is = to last year and last year wasn't good enough. There is still offseason to go, so maybe we make another good signing but so far we have just as many holes as last year and we still are a ? at G, WR, NT and QB and have thin depth everywhere but S. And that doesn't address the rest of the OL that can't win in the trenches when they need to. Cashman was better than Hicks was last year, Higher Pff grade, way better in coverage and equal in the run game, so you are wrong on that one. The question of why would Houston let him go is moot as why did the Vikes let Hunter go when they could have easily signed him for the same contract Houston did, easily. As far as Grenard not being in the same hemisphere as Hunter, you're wrong, show me facts not statements. Hunters time to pressure was longer than Grenards time to pressure. Grenard had a higher pressure rate than Hunter. Hunter had more tackles and 4 more sacks. Hunter is better, but they are in the same hemisphere also Grenard is only 26 so that's a plus. Wonum is not better than Van Ginkel and you won't find anyone beside you who thinks so if they've watched both play.
|
|
taz24
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 2,727
|
Rattler
Apr 12, 2024 22:44:51 GMT -6
Post by taz24 on Apr 12, 2024 22:44:51 GMT -6
wrong to try to compare player to player in additions and subtractions.
Fact. Flores Defenses get better so 2nd year is a step in the right drection.
Fact. The guys that left were not Flores choices. The guys that signed Flores hand picked.
Flores knows what his defensive scheme needs
|
|
|
Rattler
Apr 13, 2024 3:02:14 GMT -6
Post by blackmagic7 on Apr 13, 2024 3:02:14 GMT -6
He made an interesting comment: If you put Rattler on the Michigan team, Michigan still wins the National Championship. If you put J.J. McCarthy on South Carolina, the Gamecocks win 5 games.
|
|