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Post by greenviking76 on Mar 22, 2024 16:47:54 GMT -6
My view is that KAM doesn't want to trade our 2025 1st which takes the #3 pick off the table.Β You don't need the 2025 1st to get to 4. I think we trade 11 and 23 plus a 4th to the Cards for the #4 pick and their 3rd rd pick.Β Β We take either Mayr or JJM depending on who the team with 3rd pick passes on.Β I hope it doesn't also take next year's first to move up to draft a QB but if it does you'd certainly think it could get them to #3 instead of #4.Β Hopefully they can get their guy at #4 or #5 for "just" the two 2023 firsts. I also think it is funny that people interpret the Vikings moving up to 23 as a sure sign that they are moving up to top five get a QB.Β It seems likely, but why is it certain that the top teams would prefer 11 & 23 over 11, 42, next year's 2nd, and change... then allowing that team to make whatever trades they want to move up during the draft, if desired?Β The Patriots, Cardinals, or Chargers certainly could have told them it would take at least two 2023 firsts but why is that better than the equivalent value? I think 11 and 23 are better than 11 or 12 or 13 and a future first. I think getting the 2 seconds converted into a first gives the vikings an edge in trading up over the Broncos and Raiders who pick right behind us and are also desperate for a QB.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 22, 2024 17:24:29 GMT -6
My view is that KAM doesn't want to trade our 2025 1st which takes the #3 pick off the table. You don't need the 2025 1st to get to 4. I think we trade 11 and 23 plus a 4th to the Cards for the #4 pick and their 3rd rd pick. We take either Mayr or JJM depending on who the team with 3rd pick passes on. I hope it doesn't also take next year's first to move up to draft a QB but if it does you'd certainly think it could get them to #3 instead of #4. Hopefully they can get their guy at #4 or #5 for "just" the two 2023 firsts. I also think it is funny that people interpret the Vikings moving up to 23 as a sure sign that they are moving up to top five get a QB. It seems likely, but why is it certain that the top teams would prefer 11 & 23 over 11, 42, next year's 2nd, and change... then allowing that team to make whatever trades they want to move up during the draft, if desired? The Patriots, Cardinals, or Chargers certainly could have told them it would take at least two 2023 firsts but why is that better than the equivalent value? Because #23 is in this years draft. Picks in this years draft are worth more then future picks. Has always been this way. There really is no reason to trade up this far before the draft for an extra first unless they are planning on using it in some kind of trade. There is no possible way to project a selection in the middle or late part of the first round at this point so there cant be a specific target if they just hold the picks. They actually have less flex then they did before they traded up to #23 with less overall draft picks over this and next years draft. What they did do was garner more ammo to move up in the draft.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 22, 2024 17:25:33 GMT -6
Option 1 looking like a real possibility that it does not exist. If Giants decide to move up from 6, we'll have a hard time putting a package that can beat them. Arizona can move back 2 spots get the WR they wanted all along and get additional picks from Giants. We had no chance last year going far in the playoffs and knew we had to find a new franchise QB that just so happened to be a good year to draft one of the top ones. Now we may just miss that window of opportunity. Don't want to empty the bank on QB with risks. They are giving up Marv Jr if they move back with the Giants...
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redbird87
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 23, 2024 8:08:59 GMT -6
KAM has not always been great at getting value moving back, but has usually been stingy on paying up to move. So I think there is a real possibility we try to move up and either canβt find a partner OR we just arenβt willing to pay the toll to get there if itβs steeper than our 2 1βs.
I said I like the trade because I think cost to move up on draft day is often higher as timeline creates urgency and situation and commodity is more known. Making this move now opens opportunities without all the pressure and leverage. Maybe this move positions them to try and move up, but if not actually gives them a lot of flex. If 4-5 QBβs end up going in top 10 there are going to be some phenomenal talents sitting there at 11. If thatβs the case and they couldnβt get the guys they wanted at QB maybe:
A) they take best player at 11 and see if one of the remaking QBβs fall to 23 B) trade back from 11 with a team desperate to get a guy who was a top 5 talent and get a haul in return. If that team is lower in the draft they still have 23 and would likely have other picks now they could package with 23 to move back up if needed. C). They have higher confidence in Darnald than we do and take two studs in the 1st Rd kickstarting the rebuild.
People are overestimating the FA signings. While we have been activeβ¦ we simply found replacements for guys that left, but we still have several holes everywhere in the starting lineup and virtually Zero depth. There are a TON of holes to fill still. I think KAM is going to do what he can to hold onto draft picks. Itβs really hard to rebuild without draft picks. FA is fine, but most people hitting FA are there for a reason. They typically are either A). Too expensive, B) Average, C) Injury ?βs, D) Old and in decline.
FA is a great way to fill in gaps, but you rebuild thru the draft with players capable of becoming dominant and on cheaper contracts. We are about to have virtually no talent on cheap contracts as JJ and Darrisaw contracts come up. That makes it harder to build thru FA alone.
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Post by marshalltohof on Mar 23, 2024 8:47:22 GMT -6
I think they're all in to get a franchise quarterback this draft. Don't think sitting at 11 gets them one, almost for sure not down at 23. Kwesi mentioned a "preferred scenario". I think that's Drake Maye is there at 3 and they trade with New England.
Found this in a mock draft blurb:
"Newly hired quarterbacks coach Josh McCown β he played in the league for nearly two decades β was not only a teammate of Darnoldβs with the Jets, he coached Maye at Myers Park High School in Charlotte."
If Maye goes at 2 I wonder if they'd still trade to 3 for Jayden Daniels. Maybe they trade to 4 or 5 and get McCarthy instead.
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brda
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Post by brda on Mar 23, 2024 9:22:17 GMT -6
Option 1 looking like a real possibility that it does not exist. If Giants decide to move up from 6, we'll have a hard time putting a package that can beat them. Arizona can move back 2 spots get the WR they wanted all along and get additional picks from Giants. We had no chance last year going far in the playoffs and knew we had to find a new franchise QB that just so happened to be a good year to draft one of the top ones. Now we may just miss that window of opportunity. Don't want to empty the bank on QB with risks. They are giving up Marv Jr if they move back with the Giants... trade back with Giants ensures they get either Harrison or Nabers. Neither will be available at 11.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 23, 2024 10:25:09 GMT -6
They are giving up Marv Jr if they move back with the Giants... trade back with Giants ensures they get either Harrison or Nabers. Neither will be available at 11. There is as big a gulf between Harrison Jr and other WR's as there is between Williams and the other QB's. All the QB talk has bypassed the point that Marv Jr is the best WR prospect since Megatron. P.S. They have traded down in 1st and traded backup before also (Cardinals). They can get more from Minnesota and and probably only cost them a 3r to move back up for one of the other 2 top WR's. There are also WR's throughout the first round if you give up on Marv.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Mar 23, 2024 11:37:53 GMT -6
I agree you need to have some talent on cheaper contracts. Often these are guys that you drafted. Sometimes guys you developed that havent reached new money contracts.
I do think Addison, Pace Jr., Ingram, Blackmon, Metellus, would qualify. Some others that might fill holes as draft classes develop.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Mar 23, 2024 11:43:20 GMT -6
I think Marvin Harrison Jr. is going to be fantastic.
Megatron was the greatest prospect since Charles Rogers (Lions 2nd overall and a bust, out of the league in 3 years) Players at any position can bust.
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redbird87
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 23, 2024 12:05:47 GMT -6
I agree you need to have some talent on cheaper contracts.Β Often these are guys that you drafted.Β Sometimes guys you developed that havent reached new money contracts. I do think Addison, Pace Jr., Ingram, Blackmon, Metellus, would qualify.Β Some others that might fill holes as draft classes develop. Metellus already on 2nd contract. Addison and Pace are our only low cost talents right now and while both look very goodβ¦physical traits are likely to prevent them from ever becoming pro bowl caliber players. The others you mentioned will be lucky to get a 2nd contract from the Vikings. They need more young, cheap talent.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Mar 23, 2024 12:17:00 GMT -6
I really doubt you are capable of scouting Pace Jr. or Addison correctly. Certainly no way to know after 1 year.
I also was including lower end contracts. I don't believe a team needs to have a ton of first contracts to win under the salary cap.
With the amount of money the Vikings will have available for the 2025 season I was tempted to include a contract like the one Cashman signed. Teams can use monetary assets so many ways the idea of a 'blueprint' is a bit of a fallacy.
the blueprint for a championship in recent years has been have Patrick Mahomes.
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redbird87
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 23, 2024 13:54:31 GMT -6
I really doubt you are capable of scouting Pace Jr. or Addison correctly.Β Β Certainly no way to know after 1 year.Β Β I also was including lower end contracts.Β I don't believe a team needs to have a ton of first contracts to win under the salary cap.Β Β With the amount of money the Vikings will have available for the 2025 season I was tempted to include a contract like the one Cashman signed.Β Teams can use monetary assets so many ways the idea of a 'blueprint' is a bit of a fallacy.Β Β the blueprint for a championship in recent years has been have Patrick Mahomes.Β Β Β Just donβt believe Addison has the strength to be a pro bowl caliber player. Heβs an outstanding #2. Pace could potentially reach that statusβ¦ that wasnβt really a fair comment on my end.
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 23, 2024 14:09:23 GMT -6
I really doubt you are capable of scouting Pace Jr. or Addison correctly. Certainly no way to know after 1 year. I also was including lower end contracts. I don't believe a team needs to have a ton of first contracts to win under the salary cap. With the amount of money the Vikings will have available for the 2025 season I was tempted to include a contract like the one Cashman signed. Teams can use monetary assets so many ways the idea of a 'blueprint' is a bit of a fallacy. the blueprint for a championship in recent years has been have Patrick Mahomes. Just donβt believe Addison has the strength to be a pro bowl caliber player. Heβs an outstanding #2. Pace could potentially reach that statusβ¦ that wasnβt really a fair comment on my end. No team in the NFL is going to have 2 WR's make it to the Pro Bowl in the same year... especially in MN. Jaylen Waddle, Devontae Smith and CeeDee Lamb are comps... Dallas had to trade away Cooper for him to reach his potential.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 23, 2024 15:20:58 GMT -6
Just donβt believe Addison has the strength to be a pro bowl caliber player. Heβs an outstanding #2. Pace could potentially reach that statusβ¦ that wasnβt really a fair comment on my end. No team in the NFL is going to have 2 WR's make it to the Pro Bowl in the same year... especially in MN. Jaylen Waddle, Devontae Smith and CeeDee Lamb are comps... Dallas had to trade away Cooper for him to reach his potential. Smith is not in the same class as Lamb or Waddle. Addison is similar to Smith and both are probably best set to be top end #2's. Truth to what you say though and Diggs was more talented then Adam, but had to go to Buffalo to become a perennial pro bowler. It is not normal to have a Moss and CC on the same team that's talents can co-exist like that.
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 23, 2024 17:06:47 GMT -6
No team in the NFL is going to have 2 WR's make it to the Pro Bowl in the same year... especially in MN. Jaylen Waddle, Devontae Smith and CeeDee Lamb are comps... Dallas had to trade away Cooper for him to reach his potential. Smith is not in the same class as Lamb or Waddle. Addison is similar to Smith and both are probably best set to be top end #2's. Truth to what you say though and Diggs was more talented then Adam, but had to go to Buffalo to become a perennial pro bowler. It is not normal to have a Moss and CC on the same team that's talents can co-exist like that. With today's rulebook where CB's can't really touch a WR... "WR strength/size" is really an outdated platitude.
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