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Baker?
Feb 21, 2024 17:43:17 GMT -6
Post by smoot4208 on Feb 21, 2024 17:43:17 GMT -6
The team has too much money tied up in prime offensive weapons to have the most critical spot be a total question mark.....that is why you need a bridge QB. This isn't a full blown reboot...you have high end talent getting or about to be getting paid like high end talent....you don't put Mullins or a rookie out there and hope for the best. Anyone who watched the 2nd half of the season should be well aware of how bad our offense was....I mean it was putrid. Think of it this way. If you are a high end corporation that has just invested a shit ton of money in recruiting the best sales and networking people in the business to promote your service or product.....you don't turn around and hire a college graduate or a CEO that bankrupt 3 other companies to come in and run the place. Once in awhile you might find gold, but more than likely they are going to kill the business because they are too inexperienced and or simply not up to the job and all the talent is going to flee. The product suffers, poor decisions are made, service falls off a cliff and you pissed away all the money you spent on all these great talents you spent recruiting to promote your business. That is why you get a bridge QB With that premise, then you should just resign KC. Im sort of surprised you're all in on a bridge QB. It feels like the last 12 months, and even after the injury, you've been a huge resigning KC supporter. As far as baker is concerned, I really think Tampa is going to pay a lot to keep him there. I wouldn't be shocked if he gets $25M/yr. If you're Baker, you're not signing a 1 year deal with the Vikings. He's going to get offers for at least a 3yr deal, and I don't see the Vikings wanting a 3yr bridge QB. When you look at Journey men QBs, AKA bridge QBs, Im thinking of names like Jamies Winston, Sam Darnold, Garner Minshew, and soon to be Russell Wilson. Im not sure who of the first 3 are pending FAs either, but at that level of play, I really don't think those guys are much better than Mullens. So if we're concerned about all the money we have invested in the offense, and believe the 'window' on offense is open, then you resign KC instead.
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Vikeroo
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Baker?
Feb 21, 2024 19:12:25 GMT -6
Post by Vikeroo on Feb 21, 2024 19:12:25 GMT -6
The point of a bridge QB is to have someone to drive the car until a young guy is ready whether that be week 1 or week 4 or week 14. Just a mess if you get a bridge QB who could keep the young fella on the bench when he is ready.
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Baker?
Feb 21, 2024 19:41:43 GMT -6
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Vikeroo likes this
Post by smoot4208 on Feb 21, 2024 19:41:43 GMT -6
The point of a bridge QB is to have someone to drive the car until a young guy is ready whether that be week 1 or week 4 or week 14. Just a mess if you get a bridge QB who could keep the young fella on the bench when he is ready.Β Another good point. When people throw out the idea of all star QBs who sat their rookie year, you have to keep in mind who they were sitting behind - Typically entrenched starters. They arenβt going to sit a full 1-2 years behind an expensive βbridgeβ QB.
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Post by blackmagic7 on Feb 21, 2024 20:32:42 GMT -6
The weird part about this Baker vs Mullens is it already played out in Cleveland.
Mullens got a start over Mayfield, National Media scoffed at Baker's price tag while breaking down stat comparisons after Mullens (mediocre too, but with little prep) day, "they're the same damn guy!" Browns fans freaked out over it - the coaches handling of "their" QB, things not being "fair" for Baker.
There would be some irony to pay him more than Cleveland was willing to, after he was benched for Mullens, while having Nick here.
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drhoades
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 0:12:29 GMT -6
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Post by drhoades on Feb 22, 2024 0:12:29 GMT -6
The simple facts in the matter is that they effed up and should have extended Cousins last year. We wouldnβt be having these idiotic discussions now.
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 1:01:43 GMT -6
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Post by blackmagic7 on Feb 22, 2024 1:01:43 GMT -6
Would Kirk rush back from his injury if he "only" had one more year left on his deal?
(I suppose an extension could have been longer than that)
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 8:18:39 GMT -6
Post by daredevil on Feb 22, 2024 8:18:39 GMT -6
The more I think about Mayfield the more I'm starting to warm up to that idea. Many don't think that Tampa is going to franchise him, and if they don't; I'd offer him a 3 year contract of around $85 million with the first year fully guaranteed, and see if he would respond to that. Still one could draft a QB of ones liking in the second; I'm thinking Penix may still be there; and I would jump on him in a heart beat if still there in the 2nd. Then one would have Mayfield, Hall and Penix. No Mullens; sorry.
That would still give us a chance to slide down a few slots in the first and be able to pick up a few more draft picks.
Still the problem is; is the GM; can he do it, or is he going to sell away the farm for a possible bust? JMO Whatever; don't move up.......we don't have to this year; the quality in QB's is greater this year when one compares the first six QB's with each other; hell with stats. Mainly look at their injury prone status. Why didn't you play in your teams bowl game? Don't want to hear the excuses; i didn't want to get injured before the draft. Excuses are like A-Holes; everyone's got one. Penix played; Nix played; JJ played. Penix may have been the only one that hurt himself, but at least he showed his toughness.
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 12:12:16 GMT -6
Post by redbird87 on Feb 22, 2024 12:12:16 GMT -6
The team has too much money tied up in prime offensive weapons to have the most critical spot be a total question mark.....that is why you need a bridge QB. This isn't a full blown reboot...you have high end talent getting or about to be getting paid like high end talent....you don't put Mullins or a rookie out there and hope for the best. Anyone who watched the 2nd half of the season should be well aware of how bad our offense was....I mean it was putrid. Think of it this way. If you are a high end corporation that has just invested a shit ton of money in recruiting the best sales and networking people in the business to promote your service or product.....you don't turn around and hire a college graduate or a CEO that bankrupt 3 other companies to come in and run the place. Once in awhile you might find gold, but more than likely they are going to kill the business because they are too inexperienced and or simply not up to the job and all the talent is going to flee. The product suffers, poor decisions are made, service falls off a cliff and you pissed away all the money you spent on all these great talents you spent recruiting to promote your business. That is why you get a bridge QB With that premise, then you should just resign KC. Im sort of surprised you're all in on a bridge QB. It feels like the last 12 months, and even after the injury, you've been a huge resigning KC supporter. As far as baker is concerned, I really think Tampa is going to pay a lot to keep him there. I wouldn't be shocked if he gets $25M/yr. If you're Baker, you're not signing a 1 year deal with the Vikings. He's going to get offers for at least a 3yr deal, and I don't see the Vikings wanting a 3yr bridge QB. When you look at Journey men QBs, AKA bridge QBs, Im thinking of names like Jamies Winston, Sam Darnold, Garner Minshew, and soon to be Russell Wilson. Im not sure who of the first 3 are pending FAs either, but at that level of play, I really don't think those guys are much better than Mullens. So if we're concerned about all the money we have invested in the offense, and believe the 'window' on offense is open, then you resign KC instead. I'm fine with re-signing Kirk if the cost is feasible and I think he's the best QB to run the offense overall in 24. But, Mayfield is a very intriguing option. It appears he's finally turning into the QB people hoped for when he went number 1, he's young, he'll likely come at a cost much cheaper than Kirk and QB's of his talent level rarely hit the FA market. He's probably the most talented QB in his prime to hit the market since Kirk. Furthermore, it doesn't require you to give up multiple day 1/2 picks to move up for a QB because we are desperate. And last, because he's only 28, should he continue to play well while we develop a young QB, he still has attractive trade value if we decide the young QB has a higher upside. Kirk likely would come with a No Trade provision and he's older making it harder to transition away if we find the right young QB to be the franchise QB. The 2 scenarios I don't want is for us to draft and play a QB right away and or bring in a rum dum like Darnald or Mullins to run the ship. With the money we have or are about to have tied up in Offensive weapons, any move that potentially leaves us without a competent QB (draft pick is no guarantee) to me is asinine!
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 12:39:41 GMT -6
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Post by smoot4208 on Feb 22, 2024 12:39:41 GMT -6
The other knock I have on Baker is that he really only shined in a handful of games last year. Lets not forget the Bucs struggled in a division where it seemed like no one wanted to win. His game against the Vikings wasnβt stellar, his time in Carolina was awful, and he was mediocre in Cleveland. If he had a Case Keenum type year where he played well all year long, then I could maybe get onboard. But some team is going to overpay for this guy hoping that a half a seasonβs worth of data points are more correct than several seasons worth of data points. Look what Denver did with Keenum after 1 seasons worth of data points. Lastly, we donβt know what price point heβs even asking for. The Bucs arenβt picking high so they are motivated to tag him and see if he can prove a second season or sign him to an extension
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 12:42:17 GMT -6
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Post by odinswrath on Feb 22, 2024 12:42:17 GMT -6
I've seen reports that Mayfield is likely to get a three year contract worth at least 82.5 million with a 45 million signing bonus. That is not a bridge QB contract.
Let's keep in mind that one of Mayfields best games came against the Lions. Mullins threw for over 400 against the Lions. Someone is going to go all in for Mayfield and I hope it isn't the Vikings.
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 13:14:34 GMT -6
Post by redbird87 on Feb 22, 2024 13:14:34 GMT -6
I've seen reports that Mayfield is likely to get a three year contract worth at least 82.5 million with a 45 million signing bonus. That is not a bridge QB contract. Let's keep in mind that one of Mayfields best games came against the Lions. Mullins threw for over 400 against the Lions. Someone is going to go all in for Mayfield and I hope it isn't the Vikings. I'd say 3 years 82 Million is spot on where I said he'd be....High 20's per year. For a guy with his talent and potential, coming to a QB friendly Coach, with great weapons around him and finally getting his confidence back and putting it all together...that is a steal! I look at a guy like Mayfield and see a gritty player, with a cannon for an arm, who can make every throw and simply needed to find the right type of coach and organization for him to flourish. I think Minn would be a great home for the guy to continue to grow. I'll go on record and say I don't think we will sign him. But I think we'd be fools not to kick the tires. I loved Case when he was here, hard not to root for the kid, but any comparison of the two is apples and oranges. The only thing the two really have in common is that both are energized players that play with emotion when they are on the field....after that there really is no comparison of physical skills.
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 13:20:38 GMT -6
Post by smoot4208 on Feb 22, 2024 13:20:38 GMT -6
I've seen reports that Mayfield is likely to get a three year contract worth at least 82.5 million with a 45 million signing bonus. That is not a bridge QB contract. Let's keep in mind that one of Mayfields best games came against the Lions. Mullins threw for over 400 against the Lions. Someone is going to go all in for Mayfield and I hope it isn't the Vikings. ^ This 100%. If we're going to shell out serious money to a QB, it better be for KC. Baker very well will come at a 6x cost of what Mullens. At that point, you may as well just go the 12x cost of Mullens and keep KC
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 14:42:56 GMT -6
Post by blackmagic7 on Feb 22, 2024 14:42:56 GMT -6
I've seen reports that Mayfield is likely to get a three year contract worth at least 82.5 million with a 45 million signing bonus. That is not a bridge QB contract. Let's keep in mind that one of Mayfields best games came against the Lions. Mullins threw for over 400 against the Lions. Someone is going to go all in for Mayfield and I hope it isn't the Vikings. ^ This 100%. If we're going to shell out serious money to a QB, it better be for KC. Baker very well will come at a 6x cost of what Mullens. At that point, you may as well just go the 12x cost of Mullens and keep KC It kind of annoys me that all of this extra we'd need to pay for Baker is just a "keep him out of Tampa" tax. Are we just rolling with the best/only narratives? That Baker took less to play for Tampa to "prove it," and damn it, he did? Are we hostages to that situation without Kirk? I guess that's the debate. I'd pay a "fair" price for Baker. "Market Value" ain't it. I don't want to outpay Tampa 2-3x just for him to do it. Every extra dollar he would need in order to be convinced to leave Tampa makes me want to gag. Last offseason he entered the market with a dollar amount in mind and he didn't get it. He took less for the opportunity in Tampa. He will make the rounds again this offseason and he will have a dollar amount in mind. If teams don't match it, it'll come down to how much more lucrative the best competitive offer is vs. taking what Tampa has on the table. He's right back where he was last off-season except now he has some attachment to the organization giving him the opportunity to start. The only thing I see breaking that attachment is a genuinely shitty offer or a non offer like 1 year $8-10m guaranteed (but it's a raise!). Then maybe, maaaybe, I see us potentially being his Tampa of last season and taking something like $11-15 a year from us cause fuck em and retry with a best team out there. I don't see any team giving him that offer he cannot refuse (or is waiting to accept). I see pouting ahead that he isn't getting offered what he "deserves," then I see reports of him receiving serious offers from a couple of teams that will pay him more than he was making in Tampa and a tough decision for the guy. Then I see a report that he re-signed with Tampa on a multi-year deal that was "competitive" with the best offer(s) from free agency. Then I see Tampa drafting a QB.
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Vikeroo
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 15:31:42 GMT -6
Post by Vikeroo on Feb 22, 2024 15:31:42 GMT -6
The whole point is to get off of the middling high paid vet QB carousel.
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Baker?
Feb 22, 2024 15:59:13 GMT -6
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Post by odinswrath on Feb 22, 2024 15:59:13 GMT -6
The whole point is to get off of the middling high paid vet QB carousel.Β Exactly! At some point you have to quit kicking the can down the road with guys like Cousins and Mayfield. Where has that gotten us in the last 20 years? The time is now to find a young QB and build the team around him. This is a great year to do it because it's not every year we pick this high and it's a talented QB group.
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