|
Baker?
Feb 20, 2024 13:10:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by burntpackerdbs84 on Feb 20, 2024 13:10:55 GMT -6
What about Baker as the bridge or perhaps the QB for the next 5+ years? Winfield Jr. is getting tagged, Baker will be unrestricted. Not saying I am for it, but wondering what the consensus is on the board.
|
|
skolvike
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 1,628
|
Baker?
Feb 20, 2024 13:19:27 GMT -6
Post by skolvike on Feb 20, 2024 13:19:27 GMT -6
What about Baker as the bridge or perhaps the QB for the next 5+ years? Winfield Jr. is getting tagged, Baker will be unrestricted. Not saying I am for it, but wondering what the consensus is on the board. Which Baker?
|
|
vr46
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 957
|
Post by vr46 on Feb 20, 2024 13:44:29 GMT -6
What about Baker as the bridge or perhaps the QB for the next 5+ years? Winfield Jr. is getting tagged, Baker will be unrestricted. Not saying I am for it, but wondering what the consensus is on the board. Which Baker? Since he mentioned Winfield Jr., I assume he means Baker Mayfield. I don't think Mayfield signs a short-term contract after last season's performance. He is going to be a starter somewhere for a while. I would take him over Kirk at this point.
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Feb 20, 2024 14:27:08 GMT -6
Since he mentioned Winfield Jr., I assume he means Baker Mayfield. I don't think Mayfield signs a short-term contract after last season's performance. He is going to be a starter somewhere for a while. I would take him over Kirk at this point. I wouldn't take him "Over" Kirk, but he'll come at a much lower cost. Frankly, if the Vikings don't want to pay up for Kirk, he'd be my 1A choice as a QB/Bridge. In fact, I'd say if he can be signed in the high 20's I'd make him 1A option no matter what. I think he's perfect for what the Vikings need. He's only 28, he has the arm to make every throw in KOC's offense, he's a pocket passer that can buy time, he's tough as nails, he's gritty, he's pretty accurate and he's finally settling in and getting his confidence back. I'm on record as saying I don't like the idea of getting rid of Kirk without a known commodity in house. Even if you trade up to 3 in the draft....you have no way of knowing what you are getting and I'm not big on giving up a highly competent player with no idea of what is going to replace them particularly at the most important position. Baker to me allows you to either A) go Defense in Rd 1 or B) Still draft your QB and see what you get. At a minimum they don't have to play immediately and can learn. If Baker plays at last years level again but the young guy is still clearly "The Guy" and shows he can do, you can trade Baker for pics. If the young guy doesn't have it, you still have a QB that can run an offense efficiently. And if both prove to be good...then trade away whichever you believe is the lesser of the two. I was never a Baker fan, but he's played on some real crap ass teams. I watched him during the playoffs and I saw a guy I was really impressed with. He needs to learn to put some touch on some throws and I'd think that would be something KOC could work with him on, but the dude has a cannon for an arm, and took great care of the ball aside from the last pic in desperation time. I'd much rather sign him than Darnald, not to mention I really like the fire he plays with. That is one thing this team really lacks in my opinion is a fiery attitude from any of the players.
|
|
|
Post by burntpackerdbs84 on Feb 20, 2024 14:44:58 GMT -6
Since he mentioned Winfield Jr., I assume he means Baker Mayfield. I don't think Mayfield signs a short-term contract after last season's performance. He is going to be a starter somewhere for a while. I would take him over Kirk at this point. I wouldn't take him "Over" Kirk, but he'll come at a much lower cost. Frankly, if the Vikings don't want to pay up for Kirk, he'd be my 1A choice as a QB/Bridge. In fact, I'd say if he can be signed in the high 20's I'd make him 1A option no matter what. I think he's perfect for what the Vikings need. He's only 28, he has the arm to make every throw in KOC's offense, he's a pocket passer that can buy time, he's tough as nails, he's gritty, he's pretty accurate and he's finally settling in and getting his confidence back. I'm on record as saying I don't like the idea of getting rid of Kirk without a known commodity in house. Even if you trade up to 3 in the draft....you have no way of knowing what you are getting and I'm not big on giving up a highly competent player with no idea of what is going to replace them particularly at the most important position. Baker to me allows you to either A) go Defense in Rd 1 or B) Still draft your QB and see what you get. At a minimum they don't have to play immediately and can learn. If Baker plays at last years level again but the young guy is still clearly "The Guy" and shows he can do, you can trade Baker for pics. If the young guy doesn't have it, you still have a QB that can run an offense efficiently. And if both prove to be good...then trade away whichever you believe is the lesser of the two. I was never a Baker fan, but he's played on some real crap ass teams. I watched him during the playoffs and I saw a guy I was really impressed with. He needs to learn to put some touch on some throws and I'd think that would be something KOC could work with him on, but the dude has a cannon for an arm, and took great care of the ball aside from the last pic in desperation time. I'd much rather sign him than Darnald, not to mention I really like the fire he plays with. That is one thing this team really lacks in my opinion is a fiery attitude from any of the players. I agree
|
|
skolvike
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 1,628
|
Post by skolvike on Feb 20, 2024 15:39:54 GMT -6
Since he mentioned Winfield Jr., I assume he means Baker Mayfield. I don't think Mayfield signs a short-term contract after last season's performance. He is going to be a starter somewhere for a while. I would take him over Kirk at this point. I wouldn't take him "Over" Kirk, but he'll come at a much lower cost. Frankly, if the Vikings don't want to pay up for Kirk, he'd be my 1A choice as a QB/Bridge. In fact, I'd say if he can be signed in the high 20's I'd make him 1A option no matter what. I think he's perfect for what the Vikings need. He's only 28, he has the arm to make every throw in KOC's offense, he's a pocket passer that can buy time, he's tough as nails, he's gritty, he's pretty accurate and he's finally settling in and getting his confidence back. I'm on record as saying I don't like the idea of getting rid of Kirk without a known commodity in house. Even if you trade up to 3 in the draft....you have no way of knowing what you are getting and I'm not big on giving up a highly competent player with no idea of what is going to replace them particularly at the most important position. Baker to me allows you to either A) go Defense in Rd 1 or B) Still draft your QB and see what you get. At a minimum they don't have to play immediately and can learn. If Baker plays at last years level again but the young guy is still clearly "The Guy" and shows he can do, you can trade Baker for pics. If the young guy doesn't have it, you still have a QB that can run an offense efficiently. And if both prove to be good...then trade away whichever you believe is the lesser of the two. I was never a Baker fan, but he's played on some real crap ass teams. I watched him during the playoffs and I saw a guy I was really impressed with. He needs to learn to put some touch on some throws and I'd think that would be something KOC could work with him on, but the dude has a cannon for an arm, and took great care of the ball aside from the last pic in desperation time. I'd much rather sign him than Darnald, not to mention I really like the fire he plays with. That is one thing this team really lacks in my opinion is a fiery attitude from any of the players. Nice analysis, thanks. Sounds good, too.
|
|
purpleberserker
β ββ ββ ββ
From the fury of the Northmen deliver us, O Lord.
(A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine.)
Posts: 548
|
Post by purpleberserker on Feb 20, 2024 15:49:39 GMT -6
Just curious, if the Vikings are looking for a "bridge" QB just to play a year or so while grooming a rookie, do we really want a QB who might win a bunch of games? In the long run, would it be better to not pay any vet FA QB big (or big-ish) money or sign someone for more than a year or two? They could just roll with a low-cost journeyman for a year (even Mullins or Hall), lose more than they win, get some dead cap off the books and end up with higher draft picks next year to build up the team around the rookie.
It seems to me if they are committed to drafting a rookie this year and starting him next year, I'm not sure why we are so worried about who is under center this coming season. I do understand that veteran members of the team may not love potentially sacrificing a season. And, if you are not committed to drafting a potential long-term QB this season, then that's another story. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by odinswrath on Feb 20, 2024 16:22:27 GMT -6
Just curious, if the Vikings are looking for a "bridge" QB just to play a year or so while grooming a rookie, do we really want a QB who might win a bunch of games?Β In the long run, would it be better to not pay any vet FA QB big (or big-ish) money or sign someone for more than a year or two?Β They could just roll with a low-cost journeyman for a year (even Mullins or Hall), lose more than they win, get some dead cap off the books and end up with higher draft picks next year to build up the team around the rookie. It seems to me if they are committed to drafting a rookie this year and starting him next year, I'm not sure why we are so worried about who is under center this coming season.Β I do understand that veteran members of the team may not love potentially sacrificing a season. And, if you are not committed to drafting a potential long-term QB this season, then that's another story.Β Thoughts? I agree with this post. If you are committed to drafting a QB this year you need to start them right away. I don't understand all of this discussion about a bridge QB. BTW, I bet someone signs Mayfield for big money this year. He is still young and proved he can take a team to the playoffs. If David Carr can get the contract he got last year from the Saints, you can bet Mayfield is going to get paid.
|
|
vr46
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 957
|
Post by vr46 on Feb 20, 2024 18:25:53 GMT -6
Since he mentioned Winfield Jr., I assume he means Baker Mayfield. I don't think Mayfield signs a short-term contract after last season's performance. He is going to be a starter somewhere for a while. I would take him over Kirk at this point. I wouldn't take him "Over" Kirk, but he'll come at a much lower cost. Frankly, if the Vikings don't want to pay up for Kirk, he'd be my 1A choice as a QB/Bridge. In fact, I'd say if he can be signed in the high 20's I'd make him 1A option no matter what. I think he's perfect for what the Vikings need. He's only 28, he has the arm to make every throw in KOC's offense, he's a pocket passer that can buy time, he's tough as nails, he's gritty, he's pretty accurate and he's finally settling in and getting his confidence back. I'm on record as saying I don't like the idea of getting rid of Kirk without a known commodity in house. Even if you trade up to 3 in the draft....you have no way of knowing what you are getting and I'm not big on giving up a highly competent player with no idea of what is going to replace them particularly at the most important position. Baker to me allows you to either A) go Defense in Rd 1 or B) Still draft your QB and see what you get. At a minimum they don't have to play immediately and can learn. If Baker plays at last years level again but the young guy is still clearly "The Guy" and shows he can do, you can trade Baker for pics. If the young guy doesn't have it, you still have a QB that can run an offense efficiently. And if both prove to be good...then trade away whichever you believe is the lesser of the two. I was never a Baker fan, but he's played on some real crap ass teams. I watched him during the playoffs and I saw a guy I was really impressed with. He needs to learn to put some touch on some throws and I'd think that would be something KOC could work with him on, but the dude has a cannon for an arm, and took great care of the ball aside from the last pic in desperation time. I'd much rather sign him than Darnald, not to mention I really like the fire he plays with. That is one thing this team really lacks in my opinion is a fiery attitude from any of the players. Yes, I meant over Kirk factoring in his youth and cheaper contract. I agree with you on your assesment of his play this year and he has a great attitude. He seems to be a great leader as well. I believe that Odinswrath is correct about Mayfield getting a big payday this year, but I still think he will be cheaper than Kirk.
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Feb 20, 2024 18:38:22 GMT -6
Yes, I think Baker will get paid, but it's still likely to be high 20's to low 30's because it's only really been 1 year of good play. But the thing with Baker is he's only 28 not 35 and coming off a torn achilles on his plant foot. And Bakers game is rising and has more room for improvement. Kirk's game has been elevating as well, but at 35 how much more progression can be expected. He may not diminish, but Baker clearly has more room for growth at this point.
While there are exceptions, not having a rookie start right away has payed big dividends over the years. A Rodgers sat and learned, Mahomes sat and learned, Jordan Love sat and learned. While some like Stroud come out firing on all cylinders, more often than not, rookie QB's sometimes aren't prepared, can't make the jump but often times they struggle and are ruined because they aren't prepared for the weight of the situation lose their confidence and develop bad habits.
Furthermore, the point to signing someone like Mayfield vs. some journeyman is that you for certain have someone that can execute the offense at a high level. You could go with Mullens or Darnald (about the same guy) and draft your QB of the future, but if that QB turns into Mitch Trubisky....you don't have squat! This team is going to have a shit ton of money tied up in JJ, Hochenson, Oliver, Darrisaw and Addison all guys designed to make the offense go! You damn well better have someone that can execute the offense at QB vs. wasting the next 3 years of these guys careers on a hope and a prayer you drafted the right guy. Bryce Young went number 1 and he looks terrible, Kenny Picket first QB taken the year before looks awful. Zach Wilson, Trey Lance....how's that working out!
Baker at least showed he can lead a team deep into the playoffs in the right structure. If you sign Baker and the draft pick turns out to be a stud, you can always trade good QB play and go with the guy on the cheap deal! If the QB you draft sucks, you still have a viable QB option and didn't waste the best years of your most expensive player's careers.
|
|
drhoades
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 1,221
|
Post by drhoades on Feb 20, 2024 20:53:33 GMT -6
Yes, I think Baker will get paid, but it's still likely to be high 20's to low 30's because it's only really been 1 year of good play.Β But the thing with Baker is he's only 28 not 35 and coming off a torn achilles on his plant foot.Β And Bakers game is rising and has more room for improvement.Β Kirk's game has been elevating as well, but at 35 how much more progression can be expected.Β He may not diminish, but Baker clearly has more room for growth at this point.Β Β Β While there are exceptions, not having a rookie start right away has payed big dividends over the years.Β A Rodgers sat and learned, Mahomes sat and learned, Jordan Love sat and learned.Β While some like Stroud come out firing on all cylinders, more often than not, rookie QB's sometimes aren't prepared, can't make the jump but often times they struggle and are ruined because they aren't prepared for the weight of the situation lose their confidence and develop bad habits.Β Β Β Furthermore, the point to signing someone like Mayfield vs. some journeyman is that you for certain have someone that can execute the offense at a high level.Β You could go with Mullens or Darnald (about the same guy) and draft your QB of the future, but if that QB turns into Mitch Trubisky....you don't have squat!Β This team is going to have a shit ton of money tied up in JJ, Hochenson, Oliver, Darrisaw and Addison all guys designed to make the offense go!Β You damn well better have someone that can execute the offense at QB vs. wasting the next 3 years of these guys careers on a hope and a prayer you drafted the right guy.Β Bryce Young went number 1 and he looks terrible, Kenny Picket first QB taken the year before looks awful.Β Zach Wilson, Trey Lance....how's that working out!Β Β Baker at least showed he can lead a team deep into the playoffs in the right structure.Β If you sign Baker and the draft pick turns out to be a stud, you can always trade good QB play and go with the guy on the cheap deal!Β If the QB you draft sucks, you still have a viable QB option and didn't waste the best years of your most expensive player's careers.Β Β Great post Redbird
|
|
|
Post by solomon69 on Feb 20, 2024 21:05:40 GMT -6
Personally I have seen enough of Cousins and if we can get Mayfield I say go for it.
|
|
|
Baker?
Feb 20, 2024 22:06:08 GMT -6
Post by 1angryviking on Feb 20, 2024 22:06:08 GMT -6
Mayfield will be Tannehill 2.0
|
|
|
Post by wolfpack87 on Feb 20, 2024 22:50:36 GMT -6
Baker legitimately looked like a QB, with solid coaching, has matured and isn't just out there chucking up prayers down field like he did so much in Cleveland.
I'd take him for the right price and be perfectly happy about it. I think him, JJ, Addison and Hock (when healthy) would be a very good offense for less money than Kirk and a lot less risk on wondering what Kirk will be like off a blown out achilles.
I don't expect it to happen but we've had much worse QBs under center
|
|
brick
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 1,273
|
Post by brick on Feb 21, 2024 8:11:41 GMT -6
I look at things through crimson glasses when it comes to Mayfield, so my opinion is tainted. That said, he has been the QB for two teams making the playoffs, one being the Browns...their only playoff win since 1994.
There's certainly a list of pros/cons, but Mayfield is typically a good locker room guy and had the best year of his career last season. As a bridge guy (2, 3 years), I'm in.
|
|