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Post by redbird87 on Oct 9, 2023 19:49:16 GMT -6
I agree with you. KC is having a very good season, just wish he wasn’t getting hammered so much back there. This teams has a lot of holes to fill and we’re not competing for a SB anytime soon. KC is getting older, he can’t be our qb forever, we need to plan for the future and at 1-4, this would be a good time to do that. JMO I agree he can’t be. But in my opinion…. Planning for the future doesn’t start with drafting and playing a Rookie next year. It starts with keeping the best building blocks you have in Jefferson and Darrisaw and building sound lines so that when you are ready to play a new QB they are poised for success. Maybe that guy is Hall, who knows. But I don’t care if it’s Hall or C Williams…neither is going to be given a fair chance to succeed with all the holes we have to fill, a lack of draft capital and not near enough Cap space.
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Post by smoot4208 on Oct 9, 2023 21:04:18 GMT -6
I agree with you. KC is having a very good season, just wish he wasn’t getting hammered so much back there. This teams has a lot of holes to fill and we’re not competing for a SB anytime soon. KC is getting older, he can’t be our qb forever, we need to plan for the future and at 1-4, this would be a good time to do that. JMO I agree he can’t be. But in my opinion…. Planning for the future doesn’t start with drafting and playing a Rookie next year. It starts with keeping the best building blocks you have in Jefferson and Darrisaw and building sound lines so that when you are ready to play a new QB they are poised for success. Maybe that guy is Hall, who knows. But I don’t care if it’s Hall or C Williams…neither is going to be given a fair chance to succeed with all the holes we have to fill, a lack of draft capital and not near enough Cap space. If we roll with KC, what are you drafting with your first two rounds? IMO, we need 3 new starters on the Oline alone - that’s not something that will get solved in 1 off season I know. Next year is also a deeper year at QB position. Keeping KC definitely means at least 1 less available marquee FA signing as that’s just cap math. So if we keep KC, and draft a QB for him to groom, we’re likely only getting 1 day 1 starter on the oline for YoY improvement. It’s just hard for me to see how that moves us forward
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Post by VikeNation101 on Oct 9, 2023 21:40:55 GMT -6
I agree with you. KC is having a very good season, just wish he wasn’t getting hammered so much back there. This teams has a lot of holes to fill and we’re not competing for a SB anytime soon. KC is getting older, he can’t be our qb forever, we need to plan for the future and at 1-4, this would be a good time to do that. JMO I agree he can’t be. But in my opinion…. Planning for the future doesn’t start with drafting and playing a Rookie next year. It starts with keeping the best building blocks you have in Jefferson and Darrisaw and building sound lines so that when you are ready to play a new QB they are poised for success. Maybe that guy is Hall, who knows. But I don’t care if it’s Hall or C Williams…neither is going to be given a fair chance to succeed with all the holes we have to fill, a lack of draft capital and not near enough Cap space. If we have a top 3 pick we’re probably going QB IMO. With that being said, I don’t necessarily think we should start a rookie QB next year either. Not sure KC does a one year deal. It’s either extend KC or move on. Ideally, would like to see a rookie sit behind a veteran for at least a year. I would be ok drafting a top qb and extending KC 2 years. I guess we’ll see how the QB position plays out. Honestly KC is probably deserving of another extension but he is getting up there in age.
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Post by iceratz16 on Oct 10, 2023 10:05:12 GMT -6
Honestly this is helpful for any QB. Everyone says we have to move on because Cousins isn't mobile..... He's 1st or 2nd in every statistical category and is playing like a top 5 QB right now in spite of a bad O-Line and limited mobility. We are not losing because of Kirk right now. In fact the only reason we've been in any of these games is because of him. The Defense is sieve, the OL is giving free shots at the QB, the Running Game has been mostly non existent, KOC has been awful in the RedZone in play design and play calling and our skill players can't hold on to the damn ball. NONE of the that has to do with Cousins. Cousins has 3 fumbles and 2 interceptions right now. All 3 fumbles were caused by the OL, one interception was because Hoch muffed a difficult but perfectly thrown ball and the other interception is half on Kirk and half on Ingram. He rushed the pass to get it off before getting hit and was inaccurate as a result. Hell....let's put that on him 100% its still a 9-1 TD to Int that is actually on him. That's on pace for 48 TD's, and his numbers would be higher yet if JJ doesn't fumble the ball out of the end zone, Hoch catches the ball against the chargers, KOC comes up with any type of play call inside the 10. I mean realistically he could easily be sitting on 13-14TD's right now! My point is despite being behind an awful OL and not being the most mobile QB, he's still playing as well as anyone in the league right now. He couldn't do that the first few years he was here, but the last 2 1/2 years dude had been ballin as well as anyone. He may looked like he's ready to have a panic attack (and if I played behind this line and got hit as often as he does I would too), but dude has been clutch! Regardless of whether you think it is his fault or KOC's fault on the last play of the game....He was making great throws on critical downs late in that Chargers game to get us in that spot. And that throw he made to Hochenson that ended the game, could not have been thrown more perfectly by any QB. It was textbook placement of where it needed to be thrown....away from the defender, into the window and waist high so that only Hoch could catch it....accept he not only muffed the catch he also knocked it up in the air! I get he is going to be 36 next year but right now the he's like a fine wine....getting better with age. When great QB'ing is soooo hard to come by, it is just almost unforgivable to let a guy go that is playing this well go without a known and groomed commodity ready to replace him. To me you either re-sign the guy for 2 more years and draft the replacement to sit and learn or you trade Cousins before the deadline....you just have to! I just do not in anyway understand how anyone can justify letting him walk at the end of the season for squat. QB's are so hard to come by, to let a guy that is playing at a top 5 level behind a shit show of an OL walk for no compensation should result in an instant firing! And to top it all off, the guy is a great dude who loves being a Viking! 100% and exactly my thoughts. I'm truly amazed at how well Cousins has been able to improve since being here, especially with what he has had to endure from Zimmer, to the organization not building an adequate O-line, to the fans and media continual beratement of him in everything he does, etc. He's shown his grit, determination, toughness, and work ethic as exemplary. One of my biggest issue with Cousins when he came over was his lack of improvisation and while he still does lack in that area, I can't think of a better QB for a rookie to learn from. The problem with our organization is that our scouting department is one of the best for finding WR talent, but they are one of the worst in assessing talent for this team regarding lineman as well as QBs. To be fair, most organizations struggle with this, but outside of a few drafted by the Vikings, they have missed every single time, which just cannot happen. I see this Kirk situation similar to the Keenum situation. The other issue with bringing Kirk to MN was how it was done and the timing. The Vikings just went to the NFCCG and were playing winning football with Keenum. Instead of paying Keenum far less than what the Vikings paid Cousins (an unproven QB with the Vikings, someone who needs time to throw, and a porous o-line) and keeping the offense together (with Diggs), they decided to move on and hope for something better, which was almost impossible. This was a lose-lose situation and it proved exactly that. Rather than paying Keenum for another 2-3 years and then grabbing QBs in the draft to learn the system, we brought Cousins over and made him one of the highest paid QBs who had not done anything in Washington to warrant the contract. Heck, we could have taken Lamar Jackson with our first pick in 2018 to learn behind Keenum...imagine that. Instead, we selected Mike Hughes. Who knows what would have happened with Keenum. Would he continue to help the Vikings be successful? If not, the Vikings already lose Diggs after 2019 and maybe they get an earlier pick as a result rather than playing just mediocre football with a bad defense and possibly land a QB of the future. Yet, if everything stays the same with Keenum, in 2020, we select JJ and instead of Gladney, we take Hurts, because Keenum's contract either has or is expiring. That decision was poor and if left up to most in this fan base, they'd basically do it all over again, this time letting Kirk walk without a future plan at QB. Too many holes left in other positions that need to be addressed as well.
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Post by VikeNation101 on Oct 11, 2023 17:51:49 GMT -6
I agree he can’t be. But in my opinion…. Planning for the future doesn’t start with drafting and playing a Rookie next year. It starts with keeping the best building blocks you have in Jefferson and Darrisaw and building sound lines so that when you are ready to play a new QB they are poised for success. Maybe that guy is Hall, who knows. But I don’t care if it’s Hall or C Williams…neither is going to be given a fair chance to succeed with all the holes we have to fill, a lack of draft capital and not near enough Cap space. If we roll with KC, what are you drafting with your first two rounds? IMO, we need 3 new starters on the Oline alone - that’s not something that will get solved in 1 off season I know. Next year is also a deeper year at QB position. Keeping KC definitely means at least 1 less available marquee FA signing as that’s just cap math. So if we keep KC, and draft a QB for him to groom, we’re likely only getting 1 day 1 starter on the oline for YoY improvement. It’s just hard for me to see how that moves us forward If KC gets an extension my 1st couple of picks are going to be the best IOL and IDL unless there’s an absolute stud at LB that you just can’t pass up. But I’m going trenches all the way. With that said, C.Williams and Maye are the best looking QB prospects that I have seen in a long time. So, if one of those guys are available, I’m drafting them without hesitation and building the future around them. At this point, I would trade D.Hunter and maybe use some draft capital to move back into the 1st for best available G or DT.
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Post by drhoades on Oct 11, 2023 23:34:00 GMT -6
I will never understand the trade hunter talk. You folks have been trying to get rid of them for the last three years. Would you not love to sign a defensive end of his caliber at this stage of his career?
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Post by frantheman10 on Oct 12, 2023 7:58:55 GMT -6
I will never understand the trade hunter talk. You folks have been trying to get rid of them for the last three years. Would you not love to sign a defensive end of his caliber at this stage of his career? Hunter is a very good player but keeping him is probably going to require a 4 year deal in excess of $100mm. Whether we like it or not, The Vikings are going into rebuild mode and probably won't be very good for the next couple of years. I don't think the Vikings are going to write that check to keep a guy that will be over 30 and towards the end of the deal when the team will be in a position to compete again. Better to move him now and get something as opposed to seeimng him walk away next year and get nothing.
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Post by mjollnir on Oct 12, 2023 8:18:12 GMT -6
The perpetual grass is always greener, instant gratification society at its best.
When did losing to get a chance at a different outcome become acceptable? We did trading proven commodities for unproven commodities become okay?
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Post by hosmerfan on Oct 12, 2023 8:37:34 GMT -6
The perpetual grass is always greener, instant gratification society at its best. When did losing to get a chance at a different outcome become acceptable? We did trading proven commodities for unproven commodities become okay? It became acceptable and ok when our proven commodities haven’t won jack shit and you realize that being average isn’t, or shouldn’t be, the goal of an NFL franchise. The Vikings are the equivalent of a house with a bad foundation and new siding and windows. It’s time to replace the foundation.
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lunas
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Post by lunas on Oct 12, 2023 8:52:47 GMT -6
I will never understand the trade hunter talk. You folks have been trying to get rid of them for the last three years. Would you not love to sign a defensive end of his caliber at this stage of his career? It’s because statistically, edge rushers fall off precipitously once they reach the age of 30. His value drops like a stone every year.
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Post by frantheman10 on Oct 12, 2023 9:09:08 GMT -6
The perpetual grass is always greener, instant gratification society at its best. When did losing to get a chance at a different outcome become acceptable? We did trading proven commodities for unproven commodities become okay? It became acceptable and ok when our proven commodities haven’t won jack shit and you realize that being average isn’t, or shouldn’t be, the goal of an NFL franchise. The Vikings are the equivalent of a house with a bad foundation and new siding and windows. It’s time to replace the foundation. Exactly. We're 1-4 and heading to a 4-5 win season. What happens if we trade Hunter, we may win one less game? A lot of fans need to wake the F up and realize that this team needs a serious rebuild. Keeping guys on the wrong side of 30 who will command big money doesn't work.
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Post by wolfpack87 on Oct 12, 2023 9:28:29 GMT -6
I'd be absolutely stunned if Hunter was back. We all know he is a good player, but both money and departed filly are working against him, with KAM at GM, that computer is gonna tell him that sinking huge money into a 30 year old pass rusher is bad.
Clearly, Adam Thielen can still play (4th in the NFL in receptions, 11th in receiving yards), but we did not keep him because of money and age. I am afraid that will be the story with Hunter as well.
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Post by mjollnir on Oct 12, 2023 15:44:13 GMT -6
It became acceptable and ok when our proven commodities haven’t won jack shit and you realize that being average isn’t, or shouldn’t be, the goal of an NFL franchise. The Vikings are the equivalent of a house with a bad foundation and new siding and windows. It’s time to replace the foundation. Exactly. We're 1-4 and heading to a 4-5 win season. What happens if we trade Hunter, we may win one less game? A lot of fans need to wake the F up and realize that this team needs a serious rebuild. Keeping guys on the wrong side of 30 who will command big money doesn't work. We have 6 players age 30 or older Cousins Smith Ham Hicks Qussenberry DePaola Hunter is 28 (16) Players 28 years or older, one of them is Risner.
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