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Post by franklin99 on Apr 20, 2023 12:25:07 GMT -6
I say trade down that 1st round pick and get some mediocre round 3 players, so that we can get back to being a 9-8 football team.
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1angryviking
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Post by 1angryviking on Apr 20, 2023 13:26:13 GMT -6
Not going to argue against improving the defense. But, the offense is going to be down 2+ team captains by the beginning of the season and is liable of taking a step back without investments. I don't think sliding out of the top 10 in offense for a minimal improvement on D helps the team win more games. Teams win with their strengths and not their weaknesses. To say that teams win with their strengths and lose with their weaknesses is tautological. That is not what I said |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 20, 2023 14:10:13 GMT -6
He " made a pick in every round" is being overlooked it is false to say Rick traded down for a boatload of 7s, it simply is NOT TRUE. As far as the nice success I list, these are the players that fill up an NFL roster and have a big role. I show the 6 and 7th round of the '19 draft. 5 of 7 are having nice NFL careers. They are not just 1 or 2 year roster fillers. They are not "cheap glass imitations". Epps is having a nice career, but he was only in Minnesota for part of one season, 2019 Austin Cutting was here for just under 2 seasons Dillon Mitchell was on the PS for 2019-2020, so he wasn't even roster filler material Bisi Johnson was a decent WR3, but due to injury, he played only 2 seasons Kris Boyd was a good ST player here for 4 seasons. That's the definition of a roster filler. Oli Udoh has been a good backup, but starting him at RG was a disaster. He is a roster filler. Armon Watts was becoming a very solid player, and there were a number of us who were very unhappy that he was released. So, in total, only one of 7 guys wasn't a roster filler - and they released him. Epps was a mistake by Rick. He tried being cute and sneaking him through waivers in season to get a vet signed and then work him back onto the roster after settling some other issues. Epps got snatched and has been a solid NFL player. I never understood why he thought Epps was a good choice to sneak through when there were borderline PS guys on the 53 at that time? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2023 16:05:09 GMT -6
To say that teams win with their strengths and lose with their weaknesses is tautological. That is not what I said "Teams win with their strengths and not their weaknesses." |
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Apr 20, 2023 19:33:51 GMT -6
He " made a pick in every round" is being overlooked it is false to say Rick traded down for a boatload of 7s, it simply is NOT TRUE. As far as the nice success I list, these are the players that fill up an NFL roster and have a big role. I show the 6 and 7th round of the '19 draft. 5 of 7 are having nice NFL careers. They are not just 1 or 2 year roster fillers. They are not "cheap glass imitations". Epps is having a nice career, but he was only in Minnesota for part of one season, 2019 Austin Cutting was here for just under 2 seasons Dillon Mitchell was on the PS for 2019-2020, so he wasn't even roster filler material Bisi Johnson was a decent WR3, but due to injury, he played only 2 seasons Kris Boyd was a good ST player here for 4 seasons. That's the definition of a roster filler. Oli Udoh has been a good backup, but starting him at RG was a disaster. He is a roster filler. Armon Watts was becoming a very solid player, and there were a number of us who were very unhappy that he was released. So, in total, only one of 7 guys wasn't a roster filler - and they released him. really? 6 6 17 190 Armon Watts DT Arkansas I was not a big fan but a multi year back up is a successful pick 7 6 18 191 Marcus Epps DB Wyoming multi year Starter in NFL huge hit for 6th rounder 8 6 20 193 Olisaemeka Udoh T Multi year Backup in NFL, 1 year starter out of position, plays well in spot duty very good pick 9 7 3 217 Kris Boyd DB Texas Key ST player and leader on coverage teams, successful pick 10 7 25 239 Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon BUST 11 7 33 247 Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State half year played alot as the #2 when AT went down. injuries curtailed his career successful pick 12 7 36 250 Austin Cutting ST starter his rookie year then he started getting the yips, done after 2 years OK pick at best. 5 of 7 were good picks that is over 71% hit rate in the 6th and 7th rounds.... That is way above the league average You are crazy if you think this is anywhere near average. #247 and #250 were Comp picks from NFL, not from trades |
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2012mom
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Post by 2012mom on Apr 20, 2023 21:07:12 GMT -6
Epps is having a nice career, but he was only in Minnesota for part of one season, 2019 Austin Cutting was here for just under 2 seasons Dillon Mitchell was on the PS for 2019-2020, so he wasn't even roster filler material Bisi Johnson was a decent WR3, but due to injury, he played only 2 seasons Kris Boyd was a good ST player here for 4 seasons. That's the definition of a roster filler. Oli Udoh has been a good backup, but starting him at RG was a disaster. He is a roster filler. Armon Watts was becoming a very solid player, and there were a number of us who were very unhappy that he was released. So, in total, only one of 7 guys wasn't a roster filler - and they released him. really? 6 6 17 190 Armon Watts DT ArkansasΒ I was not a big fan but a multi year back up is a successful pick 7 6 18 191 Marcus Epps DB WyomingΒ multi year Starter in NFL huge hit for 6th rounderΒ 8 6 20 193 Olisaemeka Udoh TΒ Β Β Multi year Backup in NFL, 1 year starter out of position, plays well in spot duty very good pick 9 7 3 217 Kris Boyd DB TexasΒ Key ST player and leader on coverage teams, successful pick 10 7 25 239 Dillon Mitchell WR OregonΒ Β BUST 11 7 33 247 Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado StateΒ Β half year played alot as the #2 when AT went down. injuries curtailed his careerΒ successful pick 12 7 36 250 Austin CuttingΒ ST starter his rookie year then he started getting the yips, done after 2 yearsΒ OK pick at best. 5 of 7 were good picks that is over 71% hit rate in the 6th and 7th rounds....Β That is way above the league averageΒ You are crazy if you think this is anywhere near average. #247 and #250 were Comp picks from NFL, not from trades Keep in mind that I was responding to the comment in which you said that Rick hasn't picked a bunch of 1-2 year players and roster fillers." Your words, not mine. There are only 53 roster spots, and 25 are starters. The rest are, by definition, roster fillers. That's what one expects of round 6-7 picks, if they make the roster at all. Watts was a good pick, which I've already acknowledged. While Udoh started for one year, it wasn't a successful experiment. Even if I grant you both Watts and Udoh as success stories, the other 5 were, in fact, either only here 1-2 years or were nothing but special teams players. I don't give a bleep about what Epps or anyone else did after being released by the Vikings. Epps didn't do squat AS A VIKING. |
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1angryviking
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Post by 1angryviking on Apr 20, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -6
really? 6 6 17 190 Armon Watts DT Arkansas I was not a big fan but a multi year back up is a successful pick 7 6 18 191 Marcus Epps DB Wyoming multi year Starter in NFL huge hit for 6th rounder 8 6 20 193 Olisaemeka Udoh T Multi year Backup in NFL, 1 year starter out of position, plays well in spot duty very good pick 9 7 3 217 Kris Boyd DB Texas Key ST player and leader on coverage teams, successful pick 10 7 25 239 Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon BUST 11 7 33 247 Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State half year played alot as the #2 when AT went down. injuries curtailed his career successful pick 12 7 36 250 Austin Cutting ST starter his rookie year then he started getting the yips, done after 2 years OK pick at best. 5 of 7 were good picks that is over 71% hit rate in the 6th and 7th rounds.... That is way above the league average You are crazy if you think this is anywhere near average. #247 and #250 were Comp picks from NFL, not from trades I don't give a bleep about what Epps or anyone else did after being released by the Vikings. Epps didn't do squat AS A VIKING. I believe I have made that same argument about the quality of RS drafts/GM stewardship for the past 3 years and you were staunchly against that exact same point... what has changed? |
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Apr 21, 2023 6:01:03 GMT -6
Keep in mind that I was responding to the comment in which you said that Rick hasn't picked a bunch of 1-2 year players and roster fillers." Your words, not mine. There are only 53 roster spots, and 25 are starters. The rest are, by definition, roster fillers. That's what one expects of round 6-7 picks, if they make the roster at all. No, this is what I said "these are the players that fill up an NFL roster and have a big role."Yes there are 53 players on the ACTIVE roster and now there are 12? on the PS. Due to the cap you must have these players playing a big role. You seem to dismiss the ST players that start every week and without them the team would not be competative. There are more than 25 STARTERS on the roster. Like being the leader on ST is a BIG ROLE, he was also a STARTER on coverage teams, without which you have terrible Special Teams...like him or not he was a key member of the club whi was drafted in the 7th. Udah plays a key role on this team as he comes in when Darrisaw and O'Neill went down. As a OT he was asked to move inside and start for a year, he is a very valuable member of the Vikings otherwise he would not have been resigned. I could go on but I feel I am beating a dead horse. My post was was because you and others continue belittle the 7th round picks the Vikings make, and continually throw out the trade all the picks for a bunch of 7s mantra, which I have proven to be completely false. |
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 23, 2023 9:10:59 GMT -6
Rick was by and large an average GM. Rickβs strength was finding talent in rounds 4-6, but his weakness was maximizing talent in rounds 1-3. He had some years like 15 when he hit a home runβ¦ but by and large his drafts after that year were iffy at best.
To the argument at hand, yes special Al teams players are important. However you have to have impact players emerge out of your drafts to be a great teamβ¦. Not just guys who fill a role. Weβve had few players drafted after round 3 since 15 that have been anything more than a player you hope you can replaceβ¦ which could be acceptable if your 1-3 picks were dominating but that hasnβt really been the case either. Weβve had 3 players since 15 drafted in rounds 1-3 that have been impact playersβ¦Cook, JJ, Darrisaw. While those 3 are goodβ¦in the era of FA and salary capsβ¦. That isnβt close to being good enough. I donβt think heβs as bad as some think and I donβt think he was as good as others thinkβ¦ I think heβs somewhere in the middle and Iβm glad we moved onβ¦.. but so far Kwesi has done little to make me jump for joy, but I also think itβs too soon to judge. In fairness, he was left with a lot of bad contracts, an Ownership group that didnβt want a rebuild which ties his hands a bit. I didnβt love his 1st draft, think he got schooled a bit as a rookie GM, but Iβm hoping he improves in year 2
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 23, 2023 12:08:00 GMT -6
Spellie was an absolutely GREAT GM. It was obvious he was setting the Vikings up for numerous Championships but ownership simply did not give him enough time.
I knew as soon as the Wilfs let Spellie go he would immediately be snatched up to lead another team to greatness as GM. Mark my words this move will haunt us for decades.
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bosshogg
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Post by bosshogg on Apr 24, 2023 10:05:38 GMT -6
Only days away and I am not that excited about this draft class. Every draft will have its stars but this class seems to be meh , QBs are not that good , WRs are not spectacular (although a few will be) no real top flight front 7 D talent - all seem to be tweeners . CBs are all over the place . . OL is all over the place. TEs seem deep and go figure we donβt need any.
All signs seem to point for a trade down prob for a CB because there are so many bunched together in the bottom half of the round. It will be the guy we targeted the whole time yada yada
I usually love the draft but this year I am the least interested I have ever been.. really not doing any mocks/reading mocks / watching player highlights β¦ maybe just being a Daunte debater!!
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 24, 2023 11:53:29 GMT -6
Only days away and I am not that excited about this draft class. Every draft will have its stars but this class seems to be meh , QBs are not that good , WRs are not spectacular (although a few will be) no real top flight front 7 D talent - all seem to be tweeners . CBs are all over the place . . OL is all over the place. TEs seem deep and go figure we donβt need any. All signs seem to point for a trade down prob for a CB because there are so many bunched together in the bottom half of the round. It will be the guy we targeted the whole time yada yada I usually love the draft but this year I am the least interested I have ever been.. really not doing any mocks/reading mocks / watching player highlights β¦ maybe just being a Daunte debater!! I think something that contributes to the lack of energy going into the draft also is the lack of info coming out of the front office. It's probably a good thing overall, but Kwesi runs a much tighter ship than Rick and information is deftly quiet coming out the front office. Rick typically tipped his hat a bit more as to players and positions he would be looking to target and this draft is a complete and utter ? We literally could go QB, NT, DE, LB, CB, WR with the 1st pick. But I do agree, this draft may have a few studs....but overall is kind of a softer draft in elite talents. |
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Apr 28, 2023 22:16:31 GMT -6
There are several ways the Vikings can go, and the rumors and published mocks are all over the map. With 10 days til the draft there are a few things that stand out to me and I think I know what they will do. 1 Trade down, they must get more picks, a trade down is going to happen, not sure when but I am almost sure they will trade down in the '23 draft. 2 draft a WR, just looking at roster, I think KO will need to add at least 1 WR that has the upside of a WR 2 or 3. 3 draft a CB, Again the curent dept chart screams that at least 1 CB that may need to play in '23 will be drafted. 4 Cook and or Z Smith will be traded or released. While Z could be forced to stay and play under his contract, Cook needs to either take a real pay cut or be will be gone. Look at the NFL, RBs are not getting this money anymore and with his age he cannot play under his '23 contract. Look no further than Aaron Jones and his restructure to stay in GB and why he agreed. 5 A LB will be taken in this draft... I know, not a huge leap of faith, but they need some depth and a hopefully can get a LB that has some upside and not just a ST player. 6 QB, while I am not sold on them using a top pick at QB, they need to add someone at the most important position on the roster. I know they are doing do dilagence, and they have to be prepared for anything that could happen next week. Just my thoughts, what do you think you know??? Well I have hit my top 3 so far |
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Post by frantheman10 on Apr 29, 2023 6:20:42 GMT -6
I have no idea what theyβre doing with Cook and Z. Are really keeping Cook at $10mm base? Are we keeping an unhappy Z? If there was no trade market for them in March, they should have been cut. We would have had $20mm jn cap to spend on another CB and DT. Maybe we get a 5th or 6th today but thatβs worth a lot less than cap space in March. If the plan was to keep Cook all along, why bring back Mattison? If weβre going to make Z play out the next two years of his contract, why not trade Hunter? Makes no sense.
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Apr 8, 2024 5:34:39 GMT -6
fun reading during pre draft quiet time
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