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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 12:49:48 GMT -6
Why would you spend your first pick on a player that can only marginally improve the offense (WR), when it's a dismal defense that is the reason the Vikings can't go far in the playoffs? I mean, what WR do you think is going to be available in the bottom of round 1 who would make a significant impact, when we already have JJ and Hock, with Osborn as an adequate third option? Why would you spend your first pick on a player that can only marginally improve a dismal defense when it's the offense that got you to the playoffs? As good as the Vikings offense was last year; just about every game they went 30 straight minutes with 3 and outs... Why not turn a borderline top 10 offense to one of the top 3 instead of inspiring to turn the 31st defense into the 21st? Obviously, JJ is All Pro (22nd player and 4th WR selected); but, Hock is far from Kelce and KJ only had 4 games with over 41 yards despite taking 80% of the offensive snaps. IMO - the best way to improve this defense is to hide it... dominate the game in T.O.P. The key words here are "marginally improve". Why would you spend your first pick on a player that marginally improves either side of the ball? You want that first pick to be high value, a player who is going to make a difference. That said, if the impact is equal, improvements on defense would seem likely to effect the most change in W-L record and in the probability of winning playoff games.
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Post by 1angryviking on Apr 19, 2023 13:34:14 GMT -6
Why would you spend your first pick on a player that can only marginally improve a dismal defense when it's the offense that got you to the playoffs?Β Β As good as the Vikings offense was last year; just about every game they went 30 straight minutes with 3 and outs... Why not turn a borderline top 10 offense to one of the top 3 instead of inspiring to turn the 31st defense into the 21st?Β Β Obviously, JJ is All Pro (22nd player and 4th WR selected); but, Hock is far from Kelce and KJ only had 4 games with over 41 yards despite taking 80% of the offensive snaps. IMO - the best way to improve this defense is to hide it... dominate the game in T.O.P. The key words here are "marginally improve". Why would you spend your first pick on a player that marginally improves either side of the ball? You want that first pick to be high value, a player who is going to make a difference.Β That said, if the impact is equal, improvements on defense would seem likely to effect the most change in W-L record and in the probability of winning playoff games.Β Not going to argue against improving the defense. But, the offense is going to be down 2+ team captains by the beginning of the season and is liable of taking a step back without investments. I don't thinkk sliding out of the top 10 in offense for a minimal improvement on D helps the team win more games. Teams win with their strengths and not their weaknesses.
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Apr 19, 2023 13:50:10 GMT -6
Why would you spend your first pick on a player that can only marginally improve a dismal defense when it's the offense that got you to the playoffs? As good as the Vikings offense was last year; just about every game they went 30 straight minutes with 3 and outs... Why not turn a borderline top 10 offense to one of the top 3 instead of inspiring to turn the 31st defense into the 21st? Obviously, JJ is All Pro (22nd player and 4th WR selected); but, Hock is far from Kelce and KJ only had 4 games with over 41 yards despite taking 80% of the offensive snaps. IMO - the best way to improve this defense is to hide it... dominate the game in T.O.P. The key words here are "marginally improve". Why would you spend your first pick on a player that marginally improves either side of the ball? You want that first pick to be high value, a player who is going to make a difference. That said, if the impact is equal, improvements on defense would seem likely to effect the most change in W-L record and in the probability of winning playoff games. Why draft Stephon Diggs when you have Adam Theilen, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Jarrius Wright all under 26 years old? Mike Wallace was WR1 and Charles Johnson was on the roster as well...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 16:05:15 GMT -6
The key words here are "marginally improve". Why would you spend your first pick on a player that marginally improves either side of the ball? You want that first pick to be high value, a player who is going to make a difference. That said, if the impact is equal, improvements on defense would seem likely to effect the most change in W-L record and in the probability of winning playoff games. Why draft Stephon Diggs when you have Adam Theilen, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Jarrius Wright all under 26 years old? Mike Wallace was WR1 and Charles Johnson was on the roster as well... There was reason to believe Stefon Diggs was going to be a lot more than a "marginal improvement".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 16:11:00 GMT -6
The key words here are "marginally improve". Why would you spend your first pick on a player that marginally improves either side of the ball? You want that first pick to be high value, a player who is going to make a difference. That said, if the impact is equal, improvements on defense would seem likely to effect the most change in W-L record and in the probability of winning playoff games. Not going to argue against improving the defense. But, the offense is going to be down 2+ team captains by the beginning of the season and is liable of taking a step back without investments. I don't thinkk sliding out of the top 10 in offense for a minimal improvement on D helps the team win more games. Teams win with their strengths and not their weaknesses. I am not sure why you are assuming the Vikings will slide out of being a top 10 offense rather than continue on course or even improve their offense. To say that teams win with their strengths and lose with their weaknesses is tautological. The question is whether, for any given level of improvement, it gives more value -- in terms of W-L pct and/or playoff success -- to repair weaknesses or improve on strengths, and I think the answer to that is it is more important to fix weaknesses.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 19, 2023 16:28:35 GMT -6
they can just as well pick up UDFAs or steal guys if other practice squads, rather than stockpiling 7s. Stockpiling 7s is a Viking Urban myth... Kwesi traded 6 times in the '22 draft and only made 1 single 7th round pick... Rick, who is widely hated here for trading down and stockpiling 7s didn't take a single player in the '21 draft in the 7th round. Even in the mythical '19 draft, where he supposedly traded all the picks for a boatload of 7th rounders, made a pick in every round. He also had some nice success in the 6th and 7th round that year. 6 6 17 190 Armon Watts DT Arkansas 7 6 18 191 Marcus Epps DB Wyoming 8 6 20 193 Olisaemeka Udoh T Elon 9 7 3 217 Kris Boyd DB Texas 10 7 25 239 Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon 11 7 33 247 Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State 12 7 36 250 Austin Cutting #247 and #250 were Comp picks from NFL, not from trades Don't know why Viking fans have to beat that false drum every time someone talks about trading picks I suppose you're right if that's your opinion of "nice success." Care to list all the guys RS passed over to acquire this shining list of football acumen? I know it wasn't your intent, but thank you for absolutely proving there was nothing false about the drum we beat. S's "diamonds in the rough" are now and always have been cheap glass imitations.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Apr 19, 2023 16:35:24 GMT -6
People exaggerated it, but letβs not pretend that Rick didnβt trade back a lot. He would often trade down spots in the 3,4&5th rounds. Often at the expense of letting a better player go before we picked again. He out smarter himself in the last few years and it showed on our roster as only the older guys were good enough he did trade down alot, so what, nobody ever complained when he traded out of a pick and recieved a higher pick the following year... NO, we just waited until the next year to bitch when he traded down from that higher pick for some more studly 7ths. ALl of which, I might add, usually made the roster. You can put lipstick on the pig, but is soesn't change the fact the Vikings remained cosnsistently mediocre at best for Spielman's ENTIRE Viking tenure.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 19, 2023 19:06:16 GMT -6
I find it amusing that posters are still debating Rick Spielman.
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avguy
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Post by avguy on Apr 19, 2023 19:17:02 GMT -6
Great Maneuvers, and Kwesi comes up with 8 draft picks in 2023. That is some hope. As it is now, with just five, all discussions on that same lane are just ridiculous for us, aren't they? We're not really improving any side of the ball with the +/- on latest players let go and brought in as FA.
But, nice to have the board, even if this draft, for the Vikings sake, appears to be a bore.
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tavike
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Post by tavike on Apr 19, 2023 20:06:27 GMT -6
The vikes will not draft at pick 23. 100%
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 19, 2023 20:28:49 GMT -6
Hey Kapn' you might not have to worry about Mazi now as I have started to see him getting mocked ahead of us.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 19, 2023 20:29:26 GMT -6
The vikes will not draft at pick 23. 100% I think the odds are pretty high they do not stand pat.
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on Apr 20, 2023 5:40:24 GMT -6
Stockpiling 7s is a Viking Urban myth... Kwesi traded 6 times in the '22 draft and only made 1 single 7th round pick... Rick, who is widely hated here for trading down and stockpiling 7s didn't take a single player in the '21 draft in the 7th round. Even in the mythical '19 draft, where he supposedly traded all the picks for a boatload of 7th rounders, made a pick in every round. He also had some nice success in the 6th and 7th round that year. 6 6 17 190 Armon Watts DT Arkansas 7 6 18 191 Marcus Epps DB Wyoming 8 6 20 193 Olisaemeka Udoh T Elon 9 7 3 217 Kris Boyd DB Texas 10 7 25 239 Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon 11 7 33 247 Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State 12 7 36 250 Austin Cutting #247 and #250 were Comp picks from NFL, not from trades Don't know why Viking fans have to beat that false drum every time someone talks about trading picks I suppose you're right if that's your opinion of "nice success." Care to list all the guys RS passed over to acquire this shining list of football acumen? I know it wasn't your intent, but thank you for absolutely proving there was nothing false about the drum we beat. S's "diamonds in the rough" are now and always have been cheap glass imitations. He " made a pick in every round" is being overlooked it is false to say Rick traded down for a boatload of 7s, it simply is NOT TRUE. As far as the nice success I list, these are the players that fill up an NFL roster and have a big role. I show the 6 and 7th round of the '19 draft. 5 of 7 are having nice NFL careers. They are not just 1 or 2 year roster fillers. They are not "cheap glass imitations".
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2012mom
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Post by 2012mom on Apr 20, 2023 10:53:10 GMT -6
I suppose you're right if that's your opinion of "nice success." Care to list all the guys RS passed over to acquire this shining list of football acumen? I know it wasn't your intent, but thank you for absolutely proving there was nothing false about the drum we beat. S's "diamonds in the rough" are now and always have been cheap glass imitations.Β He " made a pick in every round"Β is being overlooked it is false to say Rick traded down for a boatload of 7s, it simply is NOT TRUE.Β As far as the nice success I list, these are the players that fill up an NFL roster and have a big role.Β I show the 6 and 7th round of the '19 draft.Β 5 of 7 are having nice NFL careers.Β They are not just 1 or 2 year roster fillers.Β They are not "cheap glass imitations". Epps is having a nice career, but he was only in Minnesota for part of one season, 2019 Austin Cutting was here for just under 2 seasons Dillon Mitchell was on the PS for 2019-2020, so he wasn't even roster filler material Bisi Johnson was a decent WR3, but due to injury, he played only 2 seasons Kris Boyd was a good ST player here for 4 seasons. That's the definition of a roster filler. Oli Udoh has been a good backup, but starting him at RG was a disaster. He is a roster filler. Armon Watts was becoming a very solid player, and there were a number of us who were very unhappy that he was released. So, in total, only one of 7 guys wasn't a roster filler - and they released him.
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ponifan
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Post by ponifan on Apr 20, 2023 11:10:00 GMT -6
He " made a pick in every round" is being overlooked it is false to say Rick traded down for a boatload of 7s, it simply is NOT TRUE. As far as the nice success I list, these are the players that fill up an NFL roster and have a big role. I show the 6 and 7th round of the '19 draft. 5 of 7 are having nice NFL careers. They are not just 1 or 2 year roster fillers. They are not "cheap glass imitations". Epps is having a nice career, but he was only in Minnesota for part of one season, 2019 Austin Cutting was here for just under 2 seasons Dillon Mitchell was on the PS for 2019-2020, so he wasn't even roster filler material Bisi Johnson was a decent WR3, but due to injury, he played only 2 seasons Kris Boyd was a good ST player here for 4 seasons. That's the definition of a roster filler. Oli Udoh has been a good backup, but starting him at RG was a disaster. He is a roster filler. Armon Watts was becoming a very solid player, and there were a number of us who were very unhappy that he was released. So, in total, only one of 7 guys wasn't a roster filler - and they released him. I thought Oli was going to be much more than just a backup, but he got scant attention from other teams and no decent contract offers. I thought somebody would give him a 3 year, 10 M contract. Not us, mind you, but surely some other team would.
Nope, no other team sees him as starter material either.
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