mjollnir
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Post by mjollnir on Apr 29, 2024 7:14:57 GMT -6
Sure, but the thing is though coaches will be spending the lions share of their time with JJM. You bring JJM along slowly if needed, but if he is ready no need to hold him back. He is the youngest QB in the class, but also the most pro ready in many ways. I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasnβt a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. And this is based off you assessment of a guy that was drafted by the Jets (whom have had how many 1st round picks and never found "the guy") and the Panthers while not quite as bad pretty much fit the same mold. How about let the guy actually practice and play some before condemning him. I have always supported if the rookie is ready let him play, but if he needs a bit of time I am completely good with sitting him as well.
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Post by frantheman10 on Apr 29, 2024 8:04:14 GMT -6
I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasnβt a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. And this is based off you assessment of a guy that was drafted by the Jets (whom have had how many 1st round picks and never found "the guy") and the Panthers while not quite as bad pretty much fit the same mold. How about let the guy actually practice and play some before condemning him. I have always supported if the rookie is ready let him play, but if he needs a bit of time I am completely good with sitting him as well. I live in NY and surrounded by a lot of Jet fans. The view on this board seems to be that Sam sucked because the Jets sucked. The view of most Jet fans is that the Jets sucked because Sam sucked. Probably a little truth in both statements. Bottom line is that Sam is on his 4th team in 6 years. I think the tag "journeyman" has now been earned. I'm not excepting a 21 year old JJM to come in and be a day one All-Pro. i do expect him to quickly be just as good if not better than a journeyman QB.
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mjollnir
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Post by mjollnir on Apr 29, 2024 9:25:11 GMT -6
And this is based off you assessment of a guy that was drafted by the Jets (whom have had how many 1st round picks and never found "the guy") and the Panthers while not quite as bad pretty much fit the same mold. How about let the guy actually practice and play some before condemning him. I have always supported if the rookie is ready let him play, but if he needs a bit of time I am completely good with sitting him as well. I live in NY and surrounded by a lot of Jet fans. The view on this board seems to be that Sam sucked because the Jets sucked. The view of most Jet fans is that the Jets sucked because Sam sucked. Probably a little truth in both statements. Bottom line is that Sam is on his 4th team in 6 years. I think the tag "journeyman" has now been earned. I'm not excepting a 21 year old JJM to come in and be a day one All-Pro. i do expect him to quickly be just as good if not better than a journeyman QB. 2 winning seasons in the last 14 years, who sucks? 2010 2010 NFL AFC East 2nd 11 5 0 Won Wild Card playoffs (at Colts) 17β16 Won Divisional playoffs (at Patriots) 28β21 Lost AFC Championship (at Steelers) 19β24 β 2011 2011 NFL AFC East 2nd 8 8 0 β β 2012 2012 NFL AFC East 3rd 6 10 0 β β 2013 2013 NFL AFC East 2nd 8 8 0 β 2014 2014 NFL AFC East 4th 4 12 0 β β 2015 2015 NFL AFC East 2nd 10 6 0 β β 2016 2016 NFL AFC East 4th 5 11 0 β β 2017 2017 NFL AFC East 4th 5 11 0 β β 2018 2018 NFL AFC East 4th 4 12 0 β β 2019 2019 NFL AFC East 3rd 7 9 0 β β 2020 2020 NFL AFC East 4th 2 14 0 β β 2021 2021 NFL AFC East 4th 4 13 0 β β 2022 2022 NFL AFC East 4th 7 10 0 β 2023 2023 NFL AFC East 3rd 7 10 0 β β
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 29, 2024 9:40:58 GMT -6
1st on Darnald, when you come into the league thinking you are on cloud 9, but find out you have no supporting cast, crappy coaching, are struggling and getting crucified daily by the media and your watching you career implode and there isnβt anyone there to really help youβ¦ those situations can suck the life out of anyone. Being in a good spot, with good coaching, good tools and finding success and winning can pump a lot of life into anyone. Having said thatβ¦ I think itβs a long shot and drafting JJ probably didnβt help that. To be clearβ¦. Iβve never said NOT to play JJ in year 1. Iβve said as long as Darnald is playing well and winning I see no rush to move to JJ just because heβs the future. Personally Iβd like to see him be able to wait until year 2, Iβm a firm believer playing right away stunts a players upside more than it helps it. Iβm not endorsing a switch late in the season if the team is 9-3 and on a roll with Darnald, nor am I opposed to a switch at 9-3 if the team is winning in spite of Darnald and McCarthy looks ready. My point all along is IF Darnald finally realizes his potential I see no reason to rush JJ onto the field in year 1 just because heβs the future. And I get you are a Mich fan and Harbaugh ran a more pro style offense but itβs not like Michigan is QB U where Harbaugh is sending starting QBβs to the NFL year after year fully prepared. For that matter, unless youβve been an OL, Michiganβs sent very few offensive players to the NFL that have taken the league by storm despite running a pro style offense and knowing how to study, etc. I like JJ a lot, but Iβm not as sold as you that just because he played for Harbaugh heβs more ready for the leap. Harbaugh does have a pedigree of developing QB's though going back to his Stanford days. Actually there is a star young WR from Michigan in Houston I told everyone was going to be a steal on day 2 a few years ago. I think Harbaugh built a roster to beat OSU honestly and was even more run heavy then his Stanford days in ways. I think Roman Wilson is a guy teams easily project to put up better numbers as a pro then in college. Bonus is though Both JJM and Wilson got to function in pro style system with pro route concepts and should make the transition easier.
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Post by frantheman10 on Apr 29, 2024 9:49:56 GMT -6
I live in NY and surrounded by a lot of Jet fans. The view on this board seems to be that Sam sucked because the Jets sucked. The view of most Jet fans is that the Jets sucked because Sam sucked. Probably a little truth in both statements. Bottom line is that Sam is on his 4th team in 6 years. I think the tag "journeyman" has now been earned. I'm not excepting a 21 year old JJM to come in and be a day one All-Pro. i do expect him to quickly be just as good if not better than a journeyman QB. 2 winning seasons in the last 14 years, who sucks? 2010 2010 NFL AFC East 2nd 11 5 0 Won Wild Card playoffs (at Colts) 17β16 Won Divisional playoffs (at Patriots) 28β21 Lost AFC Championship (at Steelers) 19β24 β 2011 2011 NFL AFC East 2nd 8 8 0 β β 2012 2012 NFL AFC East 3rd 6 10 0 β β 2013 2013 NFL AFC East 2nd 8 8 0 β 2014 2014 NFL AFC East 4th 4 12 0 β β 2015 2015 NFL AFC East 2nd 10 6 0 β β 2016 2016 NFL AFC East 4th 5 11 0 β β 2017 2017 NFL AFC East 4th 5 11 0 β β 2018 2018 NFL AFC East 4th 4 12 0 β β 2019 2019 NFL AFC East 3rd 7 9 0 β β 2020 2020 NFL AFC East 4th 2 14 0 β β 2021 2021 NFL AFC East 4th 4 13 0 β β 2022 2022 NFL AFC East 4th 7 10 0 β 2023 2023 NFL AFC East 3rd 7 10 0 β β Yes, I know the Jets suck. The stats tell the story. So does Darnold. The stats tell the story. I'm not a buyer that sam is going to become a competent NFL starter just because he puts on a Viking jersey. Nick Mullens was a turnover machine when he got to Minnesota and still is. Dobbs was erratic, inconsistent journeyman and still is. KOC is a good coach but he's not a magician. After 6 seasons, the Darnold cake is pretty much baked but maybe he pulls a Geno Smith. That would be great. We can then trade him at the deadline for a pick after JJM takes over.
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mgb8
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Post by mgb8 on Apr 29, 2024 10:38:14 GMT -6
2 winning seasons in the last 14 years, who sucks? 2010 2010 NFL AFC East 2nd 11 5 0 Won Wild Card playoffs (at Colts) 17β16 Won Divisional playoffs (at Patriots) 28β21 Lost AFC Championship (at Steelers) 19β24 β 2011 2011 NFL AFC East 2nd 8 8 0 β β 2012 2012 NFL AFC East 3rd 6 10 0 β β 2013 2013 NFL AFC East 2nd 8 8 0 β 2014 2014 NFL AFC East 4th 4 12 0 β β 2015 2015 NFL AFC East 2nd 10 6 0 β β 2016 2016 NFL AFC East 4th 5 11 0 β β 2017 2017 NFL AFC East 4th 5 11 0 β β 2018 2018 NFL AFC East 4th 4 12 0 β β 2019 2019 NFL AFC East 3rd 7 9 0 β β 2020 2020 NFL AFC East 4th 2 14 0 β β 2021 2021 NFL AFC East 4th 4 13 0 β β 2022 2022 NFL AFC East 4th 7 10 0 β 2023 2023 NFL AFC East 3rd 7 10 0 β β Yes, I know the Jets suck. The stats tell the story. So does Darnold. The stats tell the story. I'm not a buyer that sam is going to become a competent NFL starter just because he puts on a Viking jersey. Nick Mullens was a turnover machine when he got to Minnesota and still is. Dobbs was erratic, inconsistent journeyman and still is. KOC is a good coach but he's not a magician. After 6 seasons, the Darnold cake is pretty much baked but maybe he pulls a Geno Smith. That would be great. We can then trade him at the deadline for a pick after JJM takes over. In looking at his more recent YouTubes, Darnold looks like a QB with all the arm talent in the world with solid enough mobility and size, good ability to read pre-draftβ¦ no doesnβt do that well once the ball is snapped in terms of reading what is and isnβt open and making decisions. If he can follow the play design, he can execute. If it breaks down - a well disguised coverage, a better than expected jam or tighter coverage than expected, more pressure than expectedβ¦ he struggles more than a starting level QB should. some of that is probably ingrained - how quick and effectively you process under live fire. Some may develop over time, with experience. Honestly, I think Darnold is very comparable to Dereck Maye. I wouldnβt be overly optimistic for this year, and Iβm not sure that he even beats out Nick Mullens. But you never know. what I liked most about JJM is that in his YouTubes and discussions is that he seems to be fairly naturally advanced in terms of his post snap ability to read, spot, decide. Some bad decisions - which everyone has - but even on some of the stuff that is criticized, still shows. An example is Chase Daniels criticized a completion in terms of where he looked and what order, I think missed that JJM may have intentionally looked off and waited until the last possible second to check openness on his intended target and then pull the trigger.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 11:37:07 GMT -6
I think JJ is one of the most Cerebral of the QBβs in this draft. I thought based on tape and skill set he was the 2nd best QB option on the board for our systemβ¦ though there were others I liked as well even outside the big 6. But there wasnβt a single QB in this draft that is a guaranteed canβt miss prospect. They all had baggage or questions that raised some concerns. Iβm hopeful we got the right guy and I just want us to proceed cautiously IF we can.
Darnald, Iβm on record as saying I thought we way overpaid for him. But Iβm hoping the year in SF helped him and that KAM and Co were right that he still can be saved. Weβll see. Best case for us is Darnald balls out, McCarthy does as well and looks ready and we can trade him at the deadline for picks. Oh wait why would a team trade a player that doesnβt factor into their future plans for draft picks when you can give him away for free. Sorry β¦such a stupid wish/plan!!π€£
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Post by smoot4208 on Apr 29, 2024 11:56:03 GMT -6
I think JJ is one of the most Cerebral of the QBβs in this draft. I thought based on tape and skill set he was the 2nd best QB option on the board for our systemβ¦ though there were others I liked as well even outside the big 6. But there wasnβt a single QB in this draft that is a guaranteed canβt miss prospect. They all had baggage or questions that raised some concerns. Iβm hopeful we got the right guy and I just want us to proceed cautiously IF we can. Darnald, Iβm on record as saying I thought we way overpaid for him. But Iβm hoping the year in SF helped him and that KAM and Co were right that he still can be saved. Weβll see. Best case for us is Darnald balls out, McCarthy does as well and looks ready and we can trade him at the deadline for picks. Oh wait why would a team trade a player that doesnβt factor into their future plans for draft picks when you can give him away for free. Sorry β¦such a stupid wish/plan!!π€£ I think Darnard being on a 1yr contract would limit any team willing to trade for him mid season imo
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 12:29:53 GMT -6
If Darnald is playing and lighting things up and we are ready to transitionβ¦ there would be plenty of suitors. If heβs playing lights outβ¦ a QB needy team could easily have interest with the idea of a test drive and opportunity to negotiate a new contract if things go well prior to FA. Or it could be a team in contention that has a QB go down. When Kirk went down last year what do think weβd have offered up if there was a true starting level QB available that could not only keep you in the hunt but be your future QB if the guy went down was older or may not be able to come back from injury. Darnald is far from old by QB standards.
Iβm not saying we wouldnβt keep Darnald playing if heβs playing that well or that we wouldnβt keep him as insurance if we were transitioning but still in contention ourselves. But would be nice to have options.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 29, 2024 16:19:13 GMT -6
Darnold is 26 or two years older than Bo Nix.
If he plays well options would be available. Be great problem to have. His age and potential is one of the reasons that IMO Kwesi did not overpay for him.
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Post by wolfpack87 on Apr 29, 2024 17:54:35 GMT -6
Other than the obvious concern of interior o-line play for what seems like the 10th year in a row and the QB position, I hope they have a decent plan for WR. I really like Brandon Powell, but there's just not a lot of quality WR talent/depth on the roster outside of the top 3 guys, and that's assuming Powell takes a step forward and is able to produce more than a couple catches a game, because he's going to see more passes without Hockenson being available to start the year (most likely anyway). Can Powell be reliable enough to be that guy? I don't see Sherfield as anything more than a 4th WR/special teams guy, but maybe I'm wrong. Will be interesting to see if they target some FAs/cuts to add more WR talent.
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Post by marshalltohof on Apr 29, 2024 18:44:59 GMT -6
Powell is 5'8", 180. I've thought of him as more of a gadget-type/slot guy with just a few plays specifically for him, not a full-time third receiver. He played a lot due to injuries.
They need someone better as the third receiver. Think this free agent list is pretty up-to-date. If not headcases Michael Thomas or Chase Claypool would cause headaches for defenses:
Tyler Boyd Odell Beckham Jr. Michael Thomas Hunter Renfrow Jauan Jennings (49ers assigned RFA tender) Mecole Hardman Marquez Valdes-Scantling Michael Gallup Corey Davis Julio Jones D.J. Chark Russell Gage Allen Robinson Alex Erickson Lynn Bowden Scotty Miller Jalen Guyton Randall Cobb Chase Claypool Sterling Shepard Robbie Chosen Richie James Jakeem Grant
Edit: Chark had some good games with the Jags and he's 6'3". A tall receiver like that would be nice to have...
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Post by wolfpack87 on Apr 30, 2024 10:31:37 GMT -6
One of those rando Viking twitter accounts claim there is mutual interest between the Vikings and Tyler Boyd so I guess we'll see if that goes anywhere.
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