|
Post by poisonpill on Apr 28, 2024 12:07:42 GMT -6
Sure, but the thing is though coaches will be spending the lions share of their time with JJM. You bring JJM along slowly if needed, but if he is ready no need to hold him back. He is the youngest QB in the class, but also the most pro ready in many ways. I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasn’t a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. Respectfully - disagree Fran. I think its premature to conclude that Darnold is not good and belongs on the bench. IMO - the jury is still out. Darnold has only played* for the Jets and Panthers (unfortunatly, my 2nd fave team) - the 2 worst teams in the league. I believe that there's no one who would've been successful in those environments. He got a terrible leap into the league and I believe he has all the tools to be a starter in the league *IF* he can get beyond his initial shock and regain some confidence. I do agree with you that he's been poor his first several yrs in the league (as I think you write in a subsequent post to the quoted post above), but as I write above - don't believe that anyone woulda been successful in his shoes. I'm not saying he's going to be good - just that the jury should still be out for Darnold. Frankly, i'm hopeful (dare I say optimistic (?)) - he'll be a good starting qb. *and yes, I know he was on the 49ers last yr, but I don't think the plan was ever to actually play him, but to let him sit and recover, and use him only if necessary as a b/u to an entrenched qb. -
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Apr 28, 2024 14:26:26 GMT -6
Here are my thoughts. I’ve been critical of Kwesi, but this was his best draft by a mile. This may sound odd, but I’ll think this draft was good even if this draft turns out as bad as his first, because the approach this year and the way he approached most picks was SOOO much better! I view drafting kind of like playing blackjack… you can do the right thing and still be wrong but if you play the right odds consistently, know when to be patient and when to be bold you’ll usually do ok in the end. When I rooted for this guy to become the GM I did so because he was an analytic. I wanted a GM that was less emotional and more calm. A GM that could show patience when needed, be decisive and bold when needed, a GM that could think outside the box and explores different angles and a GM that weighs decisions with a risk return outcome in mind whether it be selection or trades. I wanted him to seek out difference makers and understand positional value, knowing what to look for at different levels of the draft.
He showed very little of that in the first 2 drafts. This draft he finally showed those traits. He mostly showed patience with the McCarthy pic, he was bold in moving up for Turner. You can debate if we gave up too much and maybe we did, but at least the risk reward is there. No DE/Edge was a better fit for our scheme, and while more unpolished than you’d like to see for the number of picks that went into that pick, he has the physical gifts to be a DHunter or better if everything goes right at a position that holds the highest value on Defense. Mix in that Edge is also the most expensive position on the Defense and fills a need at the same time and if he materializes you locked up the 2 most expensive positions on the field (QB/DE) on rookie contracts for the next 5 years! The price we paid may end up being too high if he falters…. But it was a good risk/reward bet regardless.
The one pic that doesn’t fit the risk/return profile is pick 4. Usually 4th Rd picks have good skills but need more refinement or lack experience somewhere in their game. So in his case and at his age, if you get the pick right and he develops nicely into a starting CB by year 2-3, he’s only got 1-2 years before he’s in decline as a player (as a CB). If you only want a player for 2-3 years go sign a free agent you know for certain can play! You draft developmental players in Rd 4 with long term aspirations. Don’t get me wrong… I’m not saying the player may not contribute and or become a very good CB for a year or two (he clearly has some appealing traits) but why develop a guy you won’t want to resign 4 years from now?
Otherwise with the little I’ve read up on some of these guys, I thought he did mostly really well with the low end and some of the UDFA’s he went after. Not all, but most look like guys that at least have traits that could make them average starters if they can fix a few things in their game or get a bit bigger/stronger and that’s what you want out of these picks. Again, I haven’t looked at all the UDFA’s yet, but the kid from Air Force to me screams a guy Flores can find a way to use. He’ll need some technique refinement, but the guy has crazy speed and strength measurable for a guy his size, has some positional flex inside and out, and has a non stop motor and if he’s coming out of the Academy should be a pretty smart kid.
I still think there are other facets of his job he needs to get better at, I maybe would have approached our second pick differently … maybe not, but I love the approach to the draft strategy and the pics so much better than in years past. I hope continues to build off this.
|
|
skolvike
■━■━■━■
Posts: 1,652
Member is Online
|
Post by skolvike on Apr 28, 2024 15:42:29 GMT -6
Sure, but the thing is though coaches will be spending the lions share of their time with JJM. You bring JJM along slowly if needed, but if he is ready no need to hold him back. He is the youngest QB in the class, but also the most pro ready in many ways. I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasn’t a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. You have no idea how good or bad Darnold will be with a competent team around him, which he has never had as a starter. You want to immediately start a rook when that very action has KILLED the careers of multiple rookies including, I might add, that very Sam Darnold you are sneering at. KOC also said they are going to "Error on the side of slowness" in regards to JJM's development. That's exactly why they brought Darnold and Mc0own in -- developing their new rook regardless of whom it was. Every action KAM and KOC have taken since even that disaster of a 2022 draft has focused on a future year when their development of THEIR version of the Vikings was complete, and I don't believe 2024 was ever it -- 2025 is it. That is the year when their new QB will take over and that is the year when they will finish their rebuild with FAs signed with the large cap. IMO 2024 will be Sam's year and '25 will be JJM's and it has nothing to do with screwing the pooch. It has to do with making a plan and then following the plan.
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Apr 28, 2024 16:53:17 GMT -6
I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasn’t a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. You have no idea how good or bad Darnold will be with a competent team around him, which he has never had as a starter. You want to immediately start a rook when that very action has KILLED the careers of multiple rookies including, I might add, that very Sam Darnold you are sneering at. KOC also said they are going to "Error on the side of slowness" in regards to JJM's development. That's exactly why they brought Darnold and Mc0own in -- developing their new rook regardless of whom it was. Every action KAM and KOC have taken since even that disaster of a 2022 draft has focused on a future year when their development of THEIR version of the Vikings was complete, and I don't believe 2024 was ever it -- 2025 is it. That is the year when their new QB will take over and that is the year when they will finish their rebuild with FAs signed with the large cap. IMO 2024 will be Sam's year and '25 will be JJM's and it has nothing to do with screwing the pooch. It has to do with making a plan and then following the plan. I tend to agree with this. I think the exception would be if McCarthy just absolutely blows them away and looks amazingly better than Darnald in camp, alleviating some of the concerns. But I think if they are even close… Darnald gets the nod to give McCarthy more time. And if Darnald by some miracle has the light come on and is having a Baker revival and the team is winning… I don’t see them doing anything to rock the boat. If Darnald and the team are struggling and JJ looks ready then maybe they make a change, but otherwise I don’t see JJ seeing the field a lot if Darnald is playing well and the team is winning.
|
|
|
Post by Vikeroo on Apr 28, 2024 16:54:05 GMT -6
I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasn’t a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. You have no idea how good or bad Darnold will be with a competent team around him, which he has never had as a starter. You want to immediately start a rook when that very action has KILLED the careers of multiple rookies including, I might add, that very Sam Darnold you are sneering at. KOC also said they are going to "Error on the side of slowness" in regards to JJM's development. That's exactly why they brought Darnold and Mc0own in -- developing their new rook regardless of whom it was. Every action KAM and KOC have taken since even that disaster of a 2022 draft has focused on a future year when their development of THEIR version of the Vikings was complete, and I don't believe 2024 was ever it -- 2025 is it. That is the year when their new QB will take over and that is the year when they will finish their rebuild with FAs signed with the large cap. IMO 2024 will be Sam's year and '25 will be JJM's and it has nothing to do with screwing the pooch. It has to do with making a plan and then following the plan. Erring on the side of caution is not naming him the starter now. Williams and Daniels are starters right now on their teams. Fast forward to mid August if he is getting the playbook down (he will) and looks like he can thrive they will not hold him back. They also will not force him into starting early either, but he will move at the pace he can handle. I fully expect sometime between August and Novemeber they will probably decide he gives them the best chance to win on Sundays and that is where the rubber will hit the road. Also they are really unlikely to carry both Darnold and Mullens on 53 so he will be 1 hit away from entering the game even if he doesn't start week 1 from the get go. You have to come to grips with the idea it is very likely he is more prepared to start week 1 then Darnold is when the time comes. Darnold can win the job and will be given opportunities to do so, but he is not the future of this franchise. Why do you think Sam deserves to have a full year to prove himself to a team he is not even under contract with in 2025? Darnold was and is a hedge and he knows it. Sam is trying to solidify his stock as a high end backup/spot starter like a Minshew or like Teddy was the last number of years. It is a job that pays really well.
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Apr 28, 2024 17:04:50 GMT -6
You have no idea how good or bad Darnold will be with a competent team around him, which he has never had as a starter. You want to immediately start a rook when that very action has KILLED the careers of multiple rookies including, I might add, that very Sam Darnold you are sneering at. KOC also said they are going to "Error on the side of slowness" in regards to JJM's development. That's exactly why they brought Darnold and Mc0own in -- developing their new rook regardless of whom it was. Every action KAM and KOC have taken since even that disaster of a 2022 draft has focused on a future year when their development of THEIR version of the Vikings was complete, and I don't believe 2024 was ever it -- 2025 is it. That is the year when their new QB will take over and that is the year when they will finish their rebuild with FAs signed with the large cap. IMO 2024 will be Sam's year and '25 will be JJM's and it has nothing to do with screwing the pooch. It has to do with making a plan and then following the plan. Erring on the side of caution is not naming him the starter now. Williams and Daniels are starters right now on their teams. Fast forward to mid August if he is getting the playbook down (he will) and looks like he can thrive they will not hold him back. They also will not force him into starting early either, but he will move at the pace he can handle. I fully expect sometime between August and Novemeber they will probably decide he gives them the best chance to win on Sundays and that is where the rubber will hit the road. Also they are really unlikely to carry both Darnold and Mullens on 53 so he will be 1 hit away from entering the game even if he doesn't start week 1 from the get go. You have to come to grips with the idea it is very likely he is more prepared to start week 1 then Darnold is when the time comes. Darnold can win the job and will be given opportunities to do so, but he is not the future of this franchise. Why do you think Sam deserves to have a full year to prove himself to a team he is not even under contract with in 2025? Darnold was and is a hedge and he knows it. Sam is trying to solidify his stock as a high end backup/spot starter like a Minshew or like Teddy was the last number of years. It is a job that pays really well. I think the difference is Williams, Daniel’s and May will play right away because they have to. Yes, JJ is the franchise and at 21 they can have him a very long time as long as they don’t ruin him. Most QB bust aren’t for a lack of talent, it’s because they needed more time. Now, if Darnald can’t make the jump many here are hoping for with better coaching and better supporting cast, then that would certainly accelerate the timeline. But there is zero reason to rush him. More to gain by letting him learn without the pressure as long as possible vs. rushing him!
|
|
|
Post by Vikeroo on Apr 28, 2024 17:19:07 GMT -6
Erring on the side of caution is not naming him the starter now. Williams and Daniels are starters right now on their teams. Fast forward to mid August if he is getting the playbook down (he will) and looks like he can thrive they will not hold him back. They also will not force him into starting early either, but he will move at the pace he can handle. I fully expect sometime between August and Novemeber they will probably decide he gives them the best chance to win on Sundays and that is where the rubber will hit the road. Also they are really unlikely to carry both Darnold and Mullens on 53 so he will be 1 hit away from entering the game even if he doesn't start week 1 from the get go. You have to come to grips with the idea it is very likely he is more prepared to start week 1 then Darnold is when the time comes. Darnold can win the job and will be given opportunities to do so, but he is not the future of this franchise. Why do you think Sam deserves to have a full year to prove himself to a team he is not even under contract with in 2025? Darnold was and is a hedge and he knows it. Sam is trying to solidify his stock as a high end backup/spot starter like a Minshew or like Teddy was the last number of years. It is a job that pays really well. I think the difference is Williams, Daniel’s and May will play right away because they have to. Yes, JJ is the franchise and at 21 they can have him a very long time as long as they don’t ruin him. Most QB bust aren’t for a lack of talent, it’s because they needed more time. Now, if Darnald can’t make the jump many here are hoping for with better coaching and better supporting cast, then that would certainly accelerate the timeline. But there is zero reason to rush him. More to gain by letting him learn without the pressure as long as possible vs. rushing him! Maye is not expected to start I think Brisset is. I think some of you have this backwards in that Sam has to set the world on fire to win and/or keep the job. If JJM is progressing well it is him. If JJM is progressing equal to Sam it is JJM. They will not put JJM out there is he is not ready, but Sam Darnold will have to play with his hair on fire to keep JJM on the bench if JJM is ready. Holding JJM back just to hold him back is as stupid as throwing him out there if he is not ready. JJM was competing the moment he showed up at TCO it is just how he is wired. I will be honest I do not think Sam has the fire in his belly to hold of McCarthy.
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Apr 28, 2024 18:38:41 GMT -6
I think the difference is Williams, Daniel’s and May will play right away because they have to. Yes, JJ is the franchise and at 21 they can have him a very long time as long as they don’t ruin him. Most QB bust aren’t for a lack of talent, it’s because they needed more time. Now, if Darnald can’t make the jump many here are hoping for with better coaching and better supporting cast, then that would certainly accelerate the timeline. But there is zero reason to rush him. More to gain by letting him learn without the pressure as long as possible vs. rushing him! Maye is not expected to start I think Brisset is. I think some of you have this backwards in that Sam has to set the world on fire to win and/or keep the job. If JJM is progressing well it is him. If JJM is progressing equal to Sam it is JJM. They will not put JJM out there is he is not ready, but Sam Darnold will have to play with his hair on fire to keep JJM on the bench if JJM is ready. Holding JJM back just to hold him back is as stupid as throwing him out there if he is not ready. JJM was competing the moment he showed up at TCO it is just how he is wired. I will be honest I do not think Sam has the fire in his belly to hold of McCarthy. Honestly, I hope you are right on JJ and wrong on Darnald. I’d love to see them both realize their potential. But I’m just posing you a question. Do you honestly think Jordan Love would still be in this league if he’d have started day 1 in GB? I don’t think so and unlike McCarthy he was a 3 year starter with more experience and WAS the offense at Utah State. Do you think KC was stupid for only playing Patrick Mahomes 1 game as a rookie and that it was a waste because Alex Smith wasn’t the future? JJ is really young as a true 21 year old. The only 21 year old I can think of that started at that age in recent memory that didn’t wash out would be Lamar and he plays in an offense that isn’t near as complicated or demanding mentally. Look at a guy like Burrow… he started right away but he was 24 as a rookie. I just don’t see any reason to rush this kid if Darnald is playing well and I think every game he can watch and learn in year 1 will only better him down the road. It gives him more time to learn, mature and better adapt to the difference of college to NFL without all the immediate pressure all while getting more nuanced with the playbook. Look at Kirk, he was a seasoned veteran and look how much better he was playing in year two understanding the plays and terminology better and not have to think so much. Dude was having an MVP season last year before getting hurt. Maybe he is up to the challenge… but 21 is really young to handle being an NFL QB, especially one that’s never had to deal with the pressure of carrying his team. That leap, it’s new teammates, new home, new environment, new playbook, new terminology, faster speeds to deal with, more complex defenses to read that’s a lot for any 21 year old to adjust to. If you really want this kid to be your future, I would hope Darnald balls out and looks like a true #1! One other reason to hope Darnald balls out… there is no guarantee JJ isn’t the next Trey Lance or even a Jordan Love who clearly wasn’t ready. I sure as hell hope not and I don’t think it will be the case, but if that’s what it looks like thru camp… it would be nice to know we have a viable option we could resign and move forward with until he’s ready! Having said all that, I’m not sold Darnald is salvageable even though he has all the arm talent you could ever wish for. But I hope I’m wrong!
|
|
|
Post by Vikeroo on Apr 28, 2024 19:44:18 GMT -6
Maye is not expected to start I think Brisset is. I think some of you have this backwards in that Sam has to set the world on fire to win and/or keep the job. If JJM is progressing well it is him. If JJM is progressing equal to Sam it is JJM. They will not put JJM out there is he is not ready, but Sam Darnold will have to play with his hair on fire to keep JJM on the bench if JJM is ready. Holding JJM back just to hold him back is as stupid as throwing him out there if he is not ready. JJM was competing the moment he showed up at TCO it is just how he is wired. I will be honest I do not think Sam has the fire in his belly to hold of McCarthy. Honestly, I hope you are right on JJ and wrong on Darnald. I’d love to see them both realize their potential. But I’m just posing you a question. Do you honestly think Jordan Love would still be in this league if he’d have started day 1 in GB? I don’t think so and unlike McCarthy he was a 3 year starter with more experience and WAS the offense at Utah State. Do you think KC was stupid for only playing Patrick Mahomes 1 game as a rookie and that it was a waste because Alex Smith wasn’t the future? JJ is really young as a true 21 year old. The only 21 year old I can think of that started at that age in recent memory that didn’t wash out would be Lamar and he plays in an offense that isn’t near as complicated or demanding mentally. Look at a guy like Burrow… he started right away but he was 24 as a rookie. I just don’t see any reason to rush this kid if Darnald is playing well and I think every game he can watch and learn in year 1 will only better him down the road. It gives him more time to learn, mature and better adapt to the difference of college to NFL without all the immediate pressure all while getting more nuanced with the playbook. Look at Kirk, he was a seasoned veteran and look how much better he was playing in year two understanding the plays and terminology better and not have to think so much. Dude was having an MVP season last year before getting hurt. Maybe he is up to the challenge… but 21 is really young to handle being an NFL QB, especially one that’s never had to deal with the pressure of carrying his team. That leap, it’s new teammates, new home, new environment, new playbook, new terminology, faster speeds to deal with, more complex defenses to read that’s a lot for any 21 year old to adjust to. If you really want this kid to be your future, I would hope Darnald balls out and looks like a true #1! One other reason to hope Darnald balls out… there is no guarantee JJ isn’t the next Trey Lance or even a Jordan Love who clearly wasn’t ready. I sure as hell hope not and I don’t think it will be the case, but if that’s what it looks like thru camp… it would be nice to know we have a viable option we could resign and move forward with until he’s ready! Having said all that, I’m not sold Darnald is salvageable even though he has all the arm talent you could ever wish for. But I hope I’m wrong! Both guys you mentioned had much better QB's ahead of them. Love should have started year 2 to get the kinks out and instead sat and sat and had to go through the growing pains at the start of last year as a starter because some things you can only learn on the football field. Love looked like garbage the first 6 games or so last year and those lessons would have been learned starting earlier then he did. Still both GB and KC were playoff teams with QB's at the time those guys sat. Josh Allen needed to play to learn the things he needed to learn. Burrow, Herbert, and many others recently did just fine starting early. Lets add in Mahomes had a lot of work put in by Reid to break him of a lot of bad habits he had among other things. Jim Harbaugh prepared him to become a pro. He knows how to learn and study a play book and film at probably the highest level in this class. His mechanics are pretty good and he seems to be a quick processor. (I know Love had some starts here and there, but he was never "The Starter" until last year) Answer this question Red... Do you really think Darnold has the same level of fire and compete that McCarthy does? Darnold went into a bad situation with Jets, but he struggled I think largely due to bad coaching & at the end of the day I think his compete level is mid to low by NFL standards. Ponder actually had enough tools and was smart enough, but he failed because of his compete level. End of the day that is really what separates good QB's from average ones or failed ones. I think Mayfield is still hanging around because of his compete level. Stafford is a good example of a guy who got put in a mostly bad situation most of his career that had fire in his belly and when he got his shot he got his ring. I bashed on Kirk plenty in the past, but the one thing I never questioned was his compete level. Maybe he got his soul crushed early in the process, but I am not sure football was ever the most important thing to Darnold. I mean everyone that makes it to the NFL is a competitor to some extent, but the guys that really make it have a whole different gear and mind set then most people.
|
|
|
Post by tavike on Apr 28, 2024 20:01:46 GMT -6
I think the difference is Williams, Daniel’s and May will play right away because they have to. Yes, JJ is the franchise and at 21 they can have him a very long time as long as they don’t ruin him. Most QB bust aren’t for a lack of talent, it’s because they needed more time. Now, if Darnald can’t make the jump many here are hoping for with better coaching and better supporting cast, then that would certainly accelerate the timeline. But there is zero reason to rush him. More to gain by letting him learn without the pressure as long as possible vs. rushing him! Maye is not expected to start I think Brisset is. I think some of you have this backwards in that Sam has to set the world on fire to win and/or keep the job. If JJM is progressing well it is him. If JJM is progressing equal to Sam it is JJM. They will not put JJM out there is he is not ready, but Sam Darnold will have to play with his hair on fire to keep JJM on the bench if JJM is ready. Holding JJM back just to hold him back is as stupid as throwing him out there if he is not ready. JJM was competing the moment he showed up at TCO it is just how he is wired. I will be honest I do not think Sam has the fire in his belly to hold of McCarthy. The fire in the belly statement rings true with me. When I saw Darnolds press conference, I got the impression that he was timid.
|
|
|
Post by frantheman10 on Apr 28, 2024 20:02:48 GMT -6
I would be very disappointed if the decision on week one starter wasn’t a close call between Sam and JJM. Darnold is not good, not even close. A top 10 pick at QB should be pushing for QB1 on week 1. If 4 months from now, Darnold is the clear starter then I will think we screwed the pooch with JJM. I think JJM is going to come and win this job out of the gate. Sam can warm the bench where he belongs. You have no idea how good or bad Darnold will be with a competent team around him, which he has never had as a starter. You want to immediately start a rook when that very action has KILLED the careers of multiple rookies including, I might add, that very Sam Darnold you are sneering at. KOC also said they are going to "Error on the side of slowness" in regards to JJM's development. That's exactly why they brought Darnold and Mc0own in -- developing their new rook regardless of whom it was. Every action KAM and KOC have taken since even that disaster of a 2022 draft has focused on a future year when their development of THEIR version of the Vikings was complete, and I don't believe 2024 was ever it -- 2025 is it. That is the year when their new QB will take over and that is the year when they will finish their rebuild with FAs signed with the large cap. IMO 2024 will be Sam's year and '25 will be JJM's and it has nothing to do with screwing the pooch. It has to do with making a plan and then following the plan. I never said that JJM should start if Darnold plays better in preseason. I said I would be disappointed if JJM wasn’t at least good enough to make it a close decision because Darnold sucks. Yes, Darnold was in bad teams but he showed nothing to indicate that he would be good on a better team. After six seasons, guys are who they are.
|
|
|
Post by Vikeroo on Apr 28, 2024 21:10:23 GMT -6
Happy with day one of the draft.. Sort of miffed a bit on the rest of the draft with the exception of the kicker pick. That said, after the top 100 the boards and projections are all over the place and it’s just too unclear to tell who’s good or not. The roster was a BIG mess and we pulled off addressing most of our problems while adding young players at most top tier positions. Still wondering we passed on a nose tackle and guard but I guess glass is half full for everyone else we added. This draft was a crap shoot after pick 75 or 80. Next year will be the opposite as it will be the of extra eligibility for covid and I also think a number of the upper echelon underclassmen or going to start thinking about getting to 2nd contracts as schools are starting to grab more control of NIL. Be 150+ player draft meaning the crap shoot will not really start until the 6th round as it started by 4th this year.
|
|
skolvike
■━■━■━■
Posts: 1,652
Member is Online
|
Post by skolvike on Apr 28, 2024 21:31:07 GMT -6
You have no idea how good or bad Darnold will be with a competent team around him, which he has never had as a starter. You want to immediately start a rook when that very action has KILLED the careers of multiple rookies including, I might add, that very Sam Darnold you are sneering at. KOC also said they are going to "Error on the side of slowness" in regards to JJM's development. That's exactly why they brought Darnold and Mc0own in -- developing their new rook regardless of whom it was. Every action KAM and KOC have taken since even that disaster of a 2022 draft has focused on a future year when their development of THEIR version of the Vikings was complete, and I don't believe 2024 was ever it -- 2025 is it. That is the year when their new QB will take over and that is the year when they will finish their rebuild with FAs signed with the large cap. IMO 2024 will be Sam's year and '25 will be JJM's and it has nothing to do with screwing the pooch. It has to do with making a plan and then following the plan. Erring on the side of caution is not naming him the starter now. Williams and Daniels are starters right now on their teams. Fast forward to mid August if he is getting the playbook down (he will) and looks like he can thrive they will not hold him back. They also will not force him into starting early either, but he will move at the pace he can handle. I fully expect sometime between August and Novemeber they will probably decide he gives them the best chance to win on Sundays and that is where the rubber will hit the road. Also they are really unlikely to carry both Darnold and Mullens on 53 so he will be 1 hit away from entering the game even if he doesn't start week 1 from the get go. You have to come to grips with the idea it is very likely he is more prepared to start week 1 then Darnold is when the time comes. Darnold can win the job and will be given opportunities to do so, but he is not the future of this franchise. Why do you think Sam deserves to have a full year to prove himself to a team he is not even under contract with in 2025? Darnold was and is a hedge and he knows it. Sam is trying to solidify his stock as a high end backup/spot starter like a Minshew or like Teddy was the last number of years. It is a job that pays really well. There's no doubt in my mind JJM will have the playbook down pat probably about a week from Tuesday. (that's only slightly hyperbolic.😁) The biggest thing that seems to ruin rooks isn't the playbook (unless you're name is Lewis Cine) is the speed of the game, and that takes longer. He's also only 21 years old and was a true Junior. Let him grow into his body a little more and absorb the speed of the game. IOW, let's let the QB whisperer whisper. Here's an interesting article I dug up: Between 2000 and 2019, there were 91 quarterbacks that entered the league and become a team's full-time starter at some point. Of the aforementioned 91 quarterbacks, just 29 of them started under center in Week 1 of their rookie season. An additional 21 took over the reins at some point within the first eight games of that season, while 14 more grabbed them in the back half of their rookie year. That's 64 of the 91 passers who became the full-time starter during their initial season. Of the remaining 27 players, 16 took the job at some point in Year 2, three took it in Year 3, and eight had to wait until Year 4 of their career or later. Here's the article. www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/history-of-nfl-qbs-waiting-to-start-heres-what-stats-since-2000-say-about-when-theyll-most-likely-succeed/Take a look -- it's surprising how many excellent QBs waited more than a year before they started. If it's tl;dr for you, here's their conclusion after crunching all the numbers: It does seem notable, though, that the rookies afforded the opportunity to start right away have generally out-performed those who had to wait a bit but still stepped into the lineup in the first half of their rookie season, who in turn out-performed those who had to wait until the second half of the year before their team gave them a shot. It's also worth noting that while in general, the quarterbacks who waited until Year 2 or beyond to become the starter have out-performed their rookie-starter counterparts, the former sample has the benefit of including Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, and Romo. That sextet makes up 22.2% of the "had to wait at least a year" sample, which will skew things quite a bit. Conversely, Allen, Herbert, Prescott, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Burrow, and Russell Wilson (just to pick a few notable examples) comprise only 9.4% of the rookie-starter group. It's not an exact one-to-one comparison.
|
|
|
Post by Vikeroo on Apr 28, 2024 23:09:59 GMT -6
Erring on the side of caution is not naming him the starter now. Williams and Daniels are starters right now on their teams. Fast forward to mid August if he is getting the playbook down (he will) and looks like he can thrive they will not hold him back. They also will not force him into starting early either, but he will move at the pace he can handle. I fully expect sometime between August and Novemeber they will probably decide he gives them the best chance to win on Sundays and that is where the rubber will hit the road. Also they are really unlikely to carry both Darnold and Mullens on 53 so he will be 1 hit away from entering the game even if he doesn't start week 1 from the get go. You have to come to grips with the idea it is very likely he is more prepared to start week 1 then Darnold is when the time comes. Darnold can win the job and will be given opportunities to do so, but he is not the future of this franchise. Why do you think Sam deserves to have a full year to prove himself to a team he is not even under contract with in 2025? Darnold was and is a hedge and he knows it. Sam is trying to solidify his stock as a high end backup/spot starter like a Minshew or like Teddy was the last number of years. It is a job that pays really well. There's no doubt in my mind JJM will have the playbook down pat probably about a week from Tuesday. (that's only slightly hyperbolic.😁) The biggest thing that seems to ruin rooks isn't the playbook (unless you're name is Lewis Cine) is the speed of the game, and that takes longer. He's also only 21 years old and was a true Junior. Let him grow into his body a little more and absorb the speed of the game. IOW, let's let the QB whisperer whisper. Here's an interesting article I dug up: Between 2000 and 2019, there were 91 quarterbacks that entered the league and become a team's full-time starter at some point. Of the aforementioned 91 quarterbacks, just 29 of them started under center in Week 1 of their rookie season. An additional 21 took over the reins at some point within the first eight games of that season, while 14 more grabbed them in the back half of their rookie year. That's 64 of the 91 passers who became the full-time starter during their initial season. Of the remaining 27 players, 16 took the job at some point in Year 2, three took it in Year 3, and eight had to wait until Year 4 of their career or later. Here's the article. www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/history-of-nfl-qbs-waiting-to-start-heres-what-stats-since-2000-say-about-when-theyll-most-likely-succeed/Take a look -- it's surprising how many excellent QBs waited more than a year before they started. If it's tl;dr for you, here's their conclusion after crunching all the numbers: It does seem notable, though, that the rookies afforded the opportunity to start right away have generally out-performed those who had to wait a bit but still stepped into the lineup in the first half of their rookie season, who in turn out-performed those who had to wait until the second half of the year before their team gave them a shot. It's also worth noting that while in general, the quarterbacks who waited until Year 2 or beyond to become the starter have out-performed their rookie-starter counterparts, the former sample has the benefit of including Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, and Romo. That sextet makes up 22.2% of the "had to wait at least a year" sample, which will skew things quite a bit. Conversely, Allen, Herbert, Prescott, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Burrow, and Russell Wilson (just to pick a few notable examples) comprise only 9.4% of the rookie-starter group. It's not an exact one-to-one comparison. Another thing to add to that is of the group of waiting for a year+ guys most of them had true franchise QB's ahead of them. Dallas was in flux when Romo burst on the scene with some failed experiments and is sorta of an outlier. By your numbers over 70% of those guys started in year 1 as named starters so that is kind of the norm. The larger point is it is a mistake to say he must start week 1 and just as big a mistake to say he shouldn't start in year 1. Once he is the best chance to win guy or even same chance to win with guy he should be the guy. the big difference between before the draft and now is up until last Thursday Night Darnold was the primary focus for KOC to work with and if they had not grabbed one of the the top QB's he would still be the #1 focus, but they did grab that guy and he is now the #1 focus. The #1 focus of this team this year is developing McCarthy into the starting QB at some point in the future from the point he was selected. When he is ready to play he will play whether that is week 1 of this year or week 1 of 2026. They have the pieces in place where it should not be a shit show around him like Maye will have. Heck, Brock Purdy is on that list of guys making it as a starter in year 1.
|
|
|
Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 7:04:05 GMT -6
1st on Darnald, when you come into the league thinking you are on cloud 9, but find out you have no supporting cast, crappy coaching, are struggling and getting crucified daily by the media and your watching you career implode and there isn’t anyone there to really help you… those situations can suck the life out of anyone. Being in a good spot, with good coaching, good tools and finding success and winning can pump a lot of life into anyone. Having said that… I think it’s a long shot and drafting JJ probably didn’t help that.
To be clear…. I’ve never said NOT to play JJ in year 1. I’ve said as long as Darnald is playing well and winning I see no rush to move to JJ just because he’s the future. Personally I’d like to see him be able to wait until year 2, I’m a firm believer playing right away stunts a players upside more than it helps it. I’m not endorsing a switch late in the season if the team is 9-3 and on a roll with Darnald, nor am I opposed to a switch at 9-3 if the team is winning in spite of Darnald and McCarthy looks ready.
My point all along is IF Darnald finally realizes his potential I see no reason to rush JJ onto the field in year 1 just because he’s the future.
And I get you are a Mich fan and Harbaugh ran a more pro style offense but it’s not like Michigan is QB U where Harbaugh is sending starting QB’s to the NFL year after year fully prepared. For that matter, unless you’ve been an OL, Michigan’s sent very few offensive players to the NFL that have taken the league by storm despite running a pro style offense and knowing how to study, etc. I like JJ a lot, but I’m not as sold as you that just because he played for Harbaugh he’s more ready for the leap.
|
|