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Post by redbird87 on Apr 24, 2024 13:05:51 GMT -6
This was discussed before, but Iβm bringing this back. Instead of us giving up the farm for a player we donβt know can succeed, could a trade of players make more sense than a trade of picks.
If McCarthy is still on the clock at 5 could a trade of Jefferson and 23 for Herbert (with LA eating some of the cap) make the most sense for both teams? No coach knows the QB class better than JH. If he really believes what he says about JJ, this trade would allow him to draft a Young QB on the cheap that he knows extremely well, pair him with the best WR in football whoβs in his mid 20βs and still get another 1st rounder at 23.
For the Vikings, itβs gets a QB you know isnβt a bust, whoβs only 26 and has all the tools your HC wants in his QB. You keep 11 and next years 1st. At 11 you could go WR or you could go DT or you could trade back and likely get a 2nd and try to fill both WR and DT in the first 2 Rds.
Just food for thought. IF JH really feels the way heβs talked about JJ this could be a win win for both teams.
Thoughts??
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Post by purpletrouble on Apr 24, 2024 13:11:13 GMT -6
IMO - Jefferson is worth two first round picks & change.
If they trade him to move up, they shouldn't offer more then JJ and pick #23, with maybe a 4th round pick back to us as well.
I'm no draft guru.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 24, 2024 13:16:33 GMT -6
IMO - Jefferson is worth two first round picks & change. If they trade him to move up, they shouldn't offer more then JJ and pick #23, with maybe a 4th round pick back to us as well. I'm no draft guru. QBβs are more valuable than WR. Maybe you get a 4th backβ¦ but I doubt it considering LA would have to eat a fair amount of cap. |
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avguy
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Post by avguy on Apr 24, 2024 13:21:38 GMT -6
If the Vikes drafted a WR in round 1 - that has been the highest failure rate position over 20 yrs span. So take that bad component out.
I doubt JH wants JJM as much as he postured weeks ago. He values the tougher, bigger, and more physical players which he has in Herbert. This complex trade sounds like it could help out in contracts, but there is the No-trade clause for Herbert.
The Vikes would improve right out of the gate and I believe the Chargers will regardless of trades or draft this season - if JH knows that, he ain't helping!
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Post by bigbone62 on Apr 24, 2024 13:34:51 GMT -6
This was discussed before, but Iβm bringing this back. Instead of us giving up the farm for a player we donβt know can succeed, could a trade of players make more sense than a trade of picks. If McCarthy is still on the clock at 5 could a trade of Jefferson and 23 for Herbert (with LA eating some of the cap) make the most sense for both teams? No coach knows the QB class better than JH. If he really believes what he says about JJ, this trade would allow him to draft a Young QB on the cheap that he knows extremely well, pair him with the best WR in football whoβs in his mid 20βs and still get another 1st rounder at 23. For the Vikings, itβs gets a QB you know isnβt a bust, whoβs only 26 and has all the tools your HC wants in his QB. You keep 11 and next years 1st. At 11 you could go WR or you could go DT or you could trade back and likely get a 2nd and try to fill both WR and DT in the first 2 Rds. Just food for thought. IF JH really feels the way heβs talked about JJ this could be a win win for both teams. Thoughts?? For clarification, do we no longer care about QB win/lose record, record against winning teams, record against division opponents and record in prime time games? Because if that's going to continue to be something this board obsesses about Herbert checks none of those boxes. |
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 24, 2024 14:34:54 GMT -6
This was discussed before, but Iβm bringing this back. Instead of us giving up the farm for a player we donβt know can succeed, could a trade of players make more sense than a trade of picks. If McCarthy is still on the clock at 5 could a trade of Jefferson and 23 for Herbert (with LA eating some of the cap) make the most sense for both teams? No coach knows the QB class better than JH. If he really believes what he says about JJ, this trade would allow him to draft a Young QB on the cheap that he knows extremely well, pair him with the best WR in football whoβs in his mid 20βs and still get another 1st rounder at 23. For the Vikings, itβs gets a QB you know isnβt a bust, whoβs only 26 and has all the tools your HC wants in his QB. You keep 11 and next years 1st. At 11 you could go WR or you could go DT or you could trade back and likely get a 2nd and try to fill both WR and DT in the first 2 Rds. Just food for thought. IF JH really feels the way heβs talked about JJ this could be a win win for both teams. Thoughts?? For clarification, do we no longer care about QB win/lose record, record against winning teams, record against division opponents and record in prime time games? Because if that's going to continue to be something this board obsesses about Herbert checks none of those boxes. I get it. His W/L record and stats look a lot like a former Vikings QB. In factβ¦ worse as it pertains to W/L. But the belief by many here is that Herberts poor W/L is all on coaching. Iβd think the hope is OβConnell can fix that. Iβm not sure where I fall on that argument to be honest, but in this instance Iβd rather take a chance that we can make a winner out of a guy that we know can play at an elite level than we can make a winner out of a guy we donβt even know if they can play at the NFL level. |
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Post by bigbone62 on Apr 24, 2024 14:45:21 GMT -6
For clarification, do we no longer care about QB win/lose record, record against winning teams, record against division opponents and record in prime time games? Because if that's going to continue to be something this board obsesses about Herbert checks none of those boxes. I get it. His W/L record and stats look a lot like a former Vikings QB. In factβ¦ worse as it pertains to W/L. But the belief by many here is that Herberts poor W/L is all on coaching. Iβd think the hope is OβConnell can fix that. Iβm not sure where I fall on that argument to be honest, but in this instance Iβd rather take a chance that we can make a winner out of a guy that we know can play at an elite level than we can make a winner out of a guy we donβt even know if they can play at the NFL level. Poor coaching sounds an awful lot like what many repeatedly called excuses when we'd lose due to trash offensive lines or defenses while KC would ball out. For clarification I think Herbert is a stud. But I get a kick out of the goal post moving this board does on specific topics. And the aforementioned benchmarks for a good QB were a rallying cry for many. |
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comet52
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Post by comet52 on Apr 24, 2024 14:57:17 GMT -6
No chance. JJ will be signed to an extension and remain a Viking imho. |
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 24, 2024 15:40:35 GMT -6
I get it. His W/L record and stats look a lot like a former Vikings QB. In factβ¦ worse as it pertains to W/L. But the belief by many here is that Herberts poor W/L is all on coaching. Iβd think the hope is OβConnell can fix that. Iβm not sure where I fall on that argument to be honest, but in this instance Iβd rather take a chance that we can make a winner out of a guy that we know can play at an elite level than we can make a winner out of a guy we donβt even know if they can play at the NFL level. Poor coaching sounds an awful lot like what many repeatedly called excuses when we'd lose due to trash offensive lines or defenses while KC would ball out. For clarification I think Herbert is a stud. But I get a kick out of the goal post moving this board does on specific topics. And the aforementioned benchmarks for a good QB were a rallying cry for many. I concur. I think a QB can only control so much. I also think some people have to learn to win and I think Kirk had to do that when he came here. I think you can maybe say the same about Herbert. But thereβs no denying the talent this kid possesses. I always laughed at the people that dogged Kirk but drooled over Herbert. Both are excellent QBβs in their own right but situationally it just didnβt translate into the desired outcome. |
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Post by Vikeroo on Apr 24, 2024 17:14:42 GMT -6
For clarification, do we no longer care about QB win/lose record, record against winning teams, record against division opponents and record in prime time games? Because if that's going to continue to be something this board obsesses about Herbert checks none of those boxes. I get it. His W/L record and stats look a lot like a former Vikings QB. In factβ¦ worse as it pertains to W/L. But the belief by many here is that Herberts poor W/L is all on coaching. Iβd think the hope is OβConnell can fix that. Iβm not sure where I fall on that argument to be honest, but in this instance Iβd rather take a chance that we can make a winner out of a guy that we know can play at an elite level than we can make a winner out of a guy we donβt even know if they can play at the NFL level. He has played well and has beaten the Chiefs before. They have not won all of them, but he has out played Mahomes a few times the last few years. think some of you misunderstand how bad the coaching was. They lost a game they led by 2 pts I think it was that they went for a 4th and 2 from their own 20 yard line once. The reliance on departed filly to make in game decisions was mind boggling the last few years with the Chargers. |
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 24, 2024 17:24:28 GMT -6
I think Herbert is a special talent. I don't believe Harbaugh and co. will trade him.
But since we are talking about goal post moving Do We NO longer care that Herbert would be well paid and NOT on a rookie contract? I guess we would be throwing out the formula to win with QB on a Rookie Contract crap I got so tired of hearing?
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Apr 24, 2024 17:31:39 GMT -6
I do believe that Herbert would benefit from the superior coaching KOC provides. I believe Harbaugh and staff will also be able to help him. Much the same way I see Darnold benefitting from KOC compared to having guys like Adam Gase and Matt Rhule.
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mgb8
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Post by mgb8 on Apr 24, 2024 20:57:14 GMT -6
More likely it would be Jefferson to the Chargers for a player (some cap back), #5, and an additional pick or two in the draft.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 24, 2024 22:35:46 GMT -6
More likely it would be Jefferson to the Chargers for a player (some cap back), #5, and an additional pick or two in the draft. Harbaugh is all about physical football and will employ a run first approach. While he obviously wants a competent QB, maybe he doesnt view the future cost of Herbertβs contract as necessary to win. Maybe heβd prefer to have a guy like JJ on a cheap contract and spend all the cap Herbert will soon cost on building out other areas. Resigning JJ is going to cost a lot, but itβs still way cheaper than Herbertβs going to be. I think itβs a long shot to happen, but I still think it could be a win win for all parties. Not saying I expect it, but thought it was something to think about. |
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Post by daredevil on Apr 25, 2024 7:29:24 GMT -6
This is a good thought Redbird, but do I see that happening; no. I believe the Charges will stay and take Alt. I do believe that the only team we would/will have a chance to trade up with is the Cards. They want a WR in the worst way, and JJ would really turn their head, but Kwesi would have to stand his ground on what the return would have to be. For one thing the thought of them obtaining JJ would be very interesting and not out of the question. It's known that their GM is a trading artist, but also no fool. So this is where Kwesi would have to stand fast; JJ and a possible this years 2nd or 3rd or a next years 2nd (our asking price)......... We still retain or two 1st, because the Cards have the #27th overall pick. They could say lets flip the 27th for your 23rd; that's the lowest I would go for their 4th rounder and JJ. If this doesn't happen; then I believe we're staying at #11 and taking either Nix or Penix; which I have no problem with and it now sounds like Kwesi and the rest are starting to warm up on.
I believe the writing is starting to show that there are way to many high quality players in the top 10 that matches what the teams above are looking for; not only for need, but BPA...... One of the first draft's I can remember that actually meets both of those standards. I can see every team above us standing pat for fear of losing out for what their looking for.
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