β GCBenβ
β ββ ββ ββ
Amateur Cap Enthusiast
Posts: 410
|
Post by β GCBenβ on Mar 17, 2024 23:13:12 GMT -6
Over the cap thinks so and they seem to have a pretty good track record with projecting comp picks. I don't fully understand how the Vikings can offset nearly $50m across four additions with just the lowest four qualifying losses totalling just over $20m, leaving Hunter and Cousins not offset, but it works for me. overthecap.com/compensatory-picksIt's not only the money, it's the caliber of player lost, using pro bowl, all pro, playoff wins, ect. The pay is the average per year, so a one year contract can be equal to a 2 or 3 year contract. It's a very complicated formula. I think this is the part I was missing - "A CFA gained will only cancel out a CFA lost with a higher draft order if there are no other CFAs lost available to cancel out." The additional compensatory free agent lost today (Osborn) frees up Hunter from being offset even though Greenard's contract (tentatively 4th round grade) is more similar to Hunter's (3rd) than Davenport's (6th) or Osborne's (7th). I gather for two thirds to be official none of the qualified players lost can be Bradforded (cut before week 10) otherwise it could just be one 3rd for Cousins. Also, if Greenard moves from 4th to 3rd the Vikings would only get a 3rd and a 7th instead of two 3rds. Crazy that a few "points" can be the difference between a 3rd round or a 7th round pick.
|
|
|
Post by frantheman10 on Mar 18, 2024 3:36:34 GMT -6
KJ is a solid player but the Vikings gave their verdict on him last year when they drafted Addison. Heβs a 3 but not a 2.
|
|
gfouts15
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 525
|
Post by gfouts15 on Mar 18, 2024 8:50:31 GMT -6
KJ is a solid player but the Vikings gave their verdict on him last year when they drafted Addison. Heβs a 3 but not a 2. I wouldn't even argue a 3. Maybe a 4 or 5. That guy had challenges getting separation either with his speed or his route running. He seemed to get blanketed a lot by opposing corners. Decent player but there are likely better available.
|
|
Vikeroo
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 10,194
|
Post by Vikeroo on Mar 18, 2024 10:09:45 GMT -6
KJ went into last year needing an 800+ yd season and a couple more impact plays and he was looking at 8M+, and then proceeded to have his most disappointing season of his career. Probably could have been excused because of the rookie except Jefferson and Hock were out for large portions of the year and there was so much opportunity for him to step up. Any way you slice it the guy is a success story as not many guys fail getting drafted late as a returner and failing at that to turn things around in his 2nd season as a true WR option for the team. I hold no ill will for him and wish him the best.
|
|
Vikeroo
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 10,194
|
Post by Vikeroo on Mar 18, 2024 10:17:16 GMT -6
It's not only the money, it's the caliber of player lost, using pro bowl, all pro, playoff wins, ect. The pay is the average per year, so a one year contract can be equal to a 2 or 3 year contract. It's a very complicated formula. I think this is the part I was missing - "A CFA gained will only cancel out a CFA lost with a higher draft order if there are no other CFAs lost available to cancel out." The additional compensatory free agent lost today (Osborn) frees up Hunter from being offset even though Greenard's contract (tentatively 4th round grade) is more similar to Hunter's (3rd) than Davenport's (6th) or Osborne's (7th). I gather for two thirds to be official none of the qualified players lost can be Bradforded (cut before week 10) otherwise it could just be one 3rd for Cousins. Also, if Greenard moves from 4th to 3rd the Vikings would only get a 3rd and a 7th instead of two 3rds. Crazy that a few "points" can be the difference between a 3rd round or a 7th round pick. Greenard is a tier 1 3rd round comp pick FA LOL. Things have inflated, but a whisper shy of 20M per year still puts him in that class. Not only should we get a 3rd next year but it should be the first one. I suspect we will get a 1st and a 6th or something like that as things stand, but they might make it 3rd and a 4th for qualitative reasons. Been tracking comp picks for years and seems like its a straight mix of contract value mostly from year 1 mixed with some voodoo. I think they do year 1 cash more then anything and do not worry about cap structure.
|
|
tavike
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 4,097
|
Post by tavike on Mar 18, 2024 10:28:40 GMT -6
I think this is the part I was missing - "A CFA gained will only cancel out a CFA lost with a higher draft order if there are no other CFAs lost available to cancel out." The additional compensatory free agent lost today (Osborn) frees up Hunter from being offset even though Greenard's contract (tentatively 4th round grade) is more similar to Hunter's (3rd) than Davenport's (6th) or Osborne's (7th). I gather for two thirds to be official none of the qualified players lost can be Bradforded (cut before week 10) otherwise it could just be one 3rd for Cousins. Also, if Greenard moves from 4th to 3rd the Vikings would only get a 3rd and a 7th instead of two 3rds. Crazy that a few "points" can be the difference between a 3rd round or a 7th round pick. Greenard is a tier 1 3rd round comp pick FA LOL. Things have inflated, but a whisper shy of 20M per year still puts him in that class. Not only should we get a 3rd next year but it should be the first one. I suspect we will get a 1st and a 6th or something like that as things stand, but they might make it 3rd and a 4th for qualitative reasons. Been tracking comp picks for years and seems like its a straight mix of contract value mostly from year 1 mixed with some voodoo. I think they do year 1 cash more then anything and do not worry about cap structure. They slightly changed the formula with the new CBA, to make it a bit easier, which means it's still terribly confusing.
|
|
|
Post by odinswrath on Mar 18, 2024 10:33:52 GMT -6
Speaking of the cap. When do the Greenard, Van Ginkel and Jones contracts hit?
|
|
Vikeroo
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 10,194
|
Post by Vikeroo on Mar 18, 2024 10:35:43 GMT -6
Speaking of the cap. When do the Greenard, Van Ginkel and Jones contracts hit? They are on the cap now I believe, just often takes a week or o to get the contract details out. Harry restructure isn't updated yet either. OTC must have decided to be more cautious they always spitballed numbers out early they had to readjust later and are not doing that now.
|
|
|
Post by burntpackerdbs84 on Mar 18, 2024 11:05:39 GMT -6
Yeah we should. More ammo to move up and get our man, hopefully.
|
|
Vikeroo
β ββ ββ ββ
Posts: 10,194
|
Post by Vikeroo on Mar 18, 2024 12:42:37 GMT -6
Greenard is a tier 1 3rd round comp pick FA LOL. Things have inflated, but a whisper shy of 20M per year still puts him in that class. Not only should we get a 3rd next year but it should be the first one. I suspect we will get a 1st and a 6th or something like that as things stand, but they might make it 3rd and a 4th for qualitative reasons. Been tracking comp picks for years and seems like its a straight mix of contract value mostly from year 1 mixed with some voodoo. I think they do year 1 cash more then anything and do not worry about cap structure. They slightly changed the formula with the new CBA, to make it a bit easier, which means it's still terribly confusing. It is still cancelling out others. People keep looking at how many and then counting our top losses not realizing Hunter and Greenard got similar contracts I suspect they will cancel out. Van and Cashman will cancel out with Davenport and Wonnum. Darnold gets canceled out buy lets say Osborn you have same situation in reverse to the Hunter Greenard situation. Then we have a few low losses Hicks and Osborn. Tillery and Jones obviously do not count in the formula. Darnold to figure in. Looked at OTC and they have Greenard as a 4th rd comp and dude got a top 10 FA contract this year. Have not compared to all the others, but I think it is around the 5th best UFA contract signed by comp eligible players. All our guys we lost still need to stay on their rosters until week 10 or whatever the vesting date is these days. They get 2 3's next year great, but not holding my breath. they lost 2 of the top 3 contracts given out for UFA's eligible. P.S. Jut saw why Greenard is getting viewed as a 4th as he is just outside the top 100 contracts. They used to do top 5% avg pay for 3rd rd comp pick, but that is one of the changes I think they made. Part of it is they have greenard at a flat 19M and I think his deal is going to be closer to 20M per year. That difference is the difference between Hunt being in top 60 and Greenard just outside top 100 avg per. Also going to be some big deals yet signed (JJ) and a number of high paid guys tossed off rosters yet. JJ doesn't change the math much though since he is a top 100 salry with his 5th year option right now so he will just move up the list.
|
|