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Post by gavike on May 1, 2023 15:33:51 GMT -6
After the draft and free agency, I guess this roster is mostly complete with minor adjustments and pretty much set for 2023, GM states that the Vikes are in competive rebuild, I hate that term,we either need to blow it up or go for it. If you think you have a chance to go all the way go for the gusto, overspend for free agents trade draft picks for needs , sacrifice your future for a chance for that oh so elusive Super Bowl win that my beloved Vikes have never gotten.
Despite our record last year, most of us knew we literally had no chance of winning a Super Bowl, offensive we were pretty good but when we went against good defensive teams, ie {Philly and Dallas). We were horribly overmatched on the offensive line and had no chance of winning. Defensively we all know that story but even worse there is no young defensive stud to build around.
this team never came to terms that we need to blow it up ,get rid of everybody with the exceptions of Jefferson, oneil and Darrisaw, suffer thru a bad bad year and go for a QB in 2024. No, we couldnt do that, and we will continue to live in mediocrity, not bad to watch, win some games that we shouldn’t, lose some games that we should win. Get to the playoffs or maybe just miss them, really in the grand scheme of things irrelevant because literally no chance of winning a Super Bowl. Although I will watch because I have been a fan of the Vikings for 50 years plus, it is pretty depressing, because the reality is that I will probably die before this team comes close to having a potential Super Bowl team
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 1, 2023 18:03:25 GMT -6
After the draft and free agency, I guess this roster is mostly complete with minor adjustments and pretty much set for 2023, GM states that the Vikes are in competive rebuild, I hate that term,we either need to blow it up or go for it. If you think you have a chance to go all the way go for the gusto, overspend for free agents trade draft picks for needs , sacrifice your future for a chance for that oh so elusive Super Bowl win that my beloved Vikes have never gotten. Despite our record last year, most of us knew we literally had no chance of winning a Super Bowl, offensive we were pretty good but when we went against good defensive teams, ie {Philly and Dallas). We were horribly overmatched on the offensive line and had no chance of winning. Defensively we all know that story but even worse there is no young defensive stud to build around. this team never came to terms that we need to blow it up ,get rid of everybody with the exceptions of Jefferson, oneil and Darrisaw, suffer thru a bad bad year and go for a QB in 2024. No, we couldnt do that, and we will continue to live in mediocrity, not bad to watch, win some games that we shouldn’t, lose some games that we should win. Get to the playoffs or maybe just miss them, really in the grand scheme of things irrelevant because literally no chance of winning a Super Bowl. Although I will watch because I have been a fan of the Vikings for 50 years plus, it is pretty depressing, because the reality is that I will probably die before this team comes close to having a potential Super Bowl team Still a lot of things to play out with Z, Cook, and Hunter. If they trade Hunter it will leave Harry as the only starter left from 2021 defense. We only have 7 defensive players total from 2021 left right now. Lynch and Mettelus have roles and Harry is locked in after pay cut. Honestly will not be shocked if Mettelus, Jones, and Harry are the only ones left once the season roles around.
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lunas
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Post by lunas on May 1, 2023 22:54:32 GMT -6
Unless they deal Cousins for draft picks, they have no intention of getting a true franchise QB to change the trajectory of this franchise. Some fans see it this way but I suspect most do not and the people in charge like it that way.
With Kirk, you will never be bad enough to get to the top of the draft. You will also never win a SB.
They never had a chance the day he signed his contract. I said it back then on the Purple Thoughts forum and it still holds true.
You cannot rebuild until you have a different QB.
My guess is we won’t be bad enough in 2023 to get one of the top QB’s and will be forced to sign KC again in 2024 to fool the fans yet another year and waste more time.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on May 2, 2023 2:03:06 GMT -6
I HATE the term blow it up.
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budgrant1
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Competitive rebuild my ass...sell the team WILF
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Post by budgrant1 on May 2, 2023 6:17:29 GMT -6
I HATE the term blow it up. Not as much as I HATE the term competitive rebuild
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Post by gavike on May 2, 2023 6:58:22 GMT -6
I don’t like blowing it up either, but what is the other choice live in mediocrity, if we want to get maybe the first or second best qb in the 2024 draft , we have to be in the top 15.
I know it is an imperfect process, no guarantee of success there either but at least there is hope, we land a burrow, mahomes etc,,,,
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Post by mjollnir on May 2, 2023 7:27:42 GMT -6
So how many of you here used the term "I am taking my toys and going home" when you did not get your way.
First and foremost it is a business, getting butts in the seats and selling merch is the drivers of all things
Competitive rebuild is the way you do that "reset" is not. Overspending for short term gain is not (sorry the Rams did this and will be also rans for a long time, even then it was at the very last point of the window).
The Brown have blown it up on a consistent basis and still have not succeeded.
Right now the model teams are the Eagles, Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, 49 ers.
None of those teams "Blew it up and started over only the 49ers' and Bengals were really below 500 teams for any amount of time. But they had pieces in place that most of you would want to jetison.
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Post by 2012mom on May 2, 2023 8:17:41 GMT -6
So how many of you here used the term "I am taking my toys and going home" when you did not get your way. First and foremost it is a business, getting butts in the seats and selling merch is the drivers of all things Competitive rebuild is the way you do that "reset" is not. Overspending for short term gain is not (sorry the Rams did this and will be also rans for a long time, even then it was at the very last point of the window). The Brown have blown it up on a consistent basis and still have not succeeded. Right now the model teams are the Eagles, Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, 49 ers. None of those teams "Blew it up and started over only the 49ers' and Bengals were really below 500 teams for any amount of time. But they had pieces in place that most of you would want to jetison. You really should look stuff up before you write such things. The Chiefs had 5 losing seasons in the 6 years before they hired Andy Reid, which included 2-14. They made they playoffs three years in a row with Alex Smith at QB, but they traded up to the #10 spot in 2017 to pick Mahomes, and they now have 2 Lombardis, and if their OL hadn't been decimated in the playoffs, they could easily have three. The Bills had a string of about 10 losing seasons out of 13, with a string of 17 years but making the playoffs, before they hired Sean McDermott. In McDermott's second year, Buffalo traded up from #12 to #7 to be able to draft Josh Allen. The Eagles have been mostly good, because they have had coaches like Andy Reid and Doug Pederson, but remember, they fired both of those guys, in Pederson's case, only 3 years after he won a SB for them with Carson Wentz and Nick Foles at QB!
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mgb8
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Post by mgb8 on May 2, 2023 8:25:32 GMT -6
I disagree with the premise that you can’t win a SB with Cousins. I think you can, if the other parts around him are good enough.
I also think there is value to just being a pretty good team, in that lightening may strike, you get hot at the right time, other teams get banged up… and suddenly you are SB champs.
The OL was markedly better last season with development of young players and Bradbury bouncing back. The guards were weak, but that is a rook and some regression by Cleveland, up there is room to hope both improve.
So, for me, I don’t have a problem with them not blowing it up. I don’t love the execution - I think the spending on a blocking TE and keeping Ham at his cost were both mistakes. I think that if they have to release Cook for nothing, they probably would have been better of letting Mattison walk and keeping Cook. I think flat releasing Dantzler was a mistake - his contract wasn’t that much, and could have kept him and tried to ove him later for at least a future 6th or 7th. I wouldn’t trade or release either Hunter or Z. Smith, because I would want to take a shot… even with the signing of Davenport… but I would have spent more capital on DL and CB over TE and FB and RB.
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Post by tavike on May 2, 2023 15:42:52 GMT -6
Unless they deal Cousins for draft picks, they have no intention of getting a true franchise QB to change the trajectory of this franchise. Some fans see it this way but I suspect most do not and the people in charge like it that way. With Kirk, you will never be bad enough to get to the top of the draft. You will also never win a SB. They never had a chance the day he signed his contract. I said it back then on the Purple Thoughts forum and it still holds true. You cannot rebuild until you have a different QB. My guess is we won’t be bad enough in 2023 to get one of the top QB’s and will be forced to sign KC again in 2024 to fool the fans yet another year and waste more time. If you had a QB as good as Cousins on a rookie deal you would have a chance. He's not good enough for his contract, which is the problem.
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Post by mjollnir on May 2, 2023 16:07:00 GMT -6
So how many of you here used the term "I am taking my toys and going home" when you did not get your way. First and foremost it is a business, getting butts in the seats and selling merch is the drivers of all things Competitive rebuild is the way you do that "reset" is not. Overspending for short term gain is not (sorry the Rams did this and will be also rans for a long time, even then it was at the very last point of the window). The Browns have blown it up on a consistent basis and still have not succeeded. Right now the model teams are the Eagles, Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, 49 ers. None of those teams "Blew it up and started over only the 49ers' and Bengals were really below 500 teams for any amount of time. But they had pieces in place that most of you would want to jetison. You really should look stuff up before you write such things. The Chiefs had 5 losing seasons in the 6 years before they hired Andy Reid, which included 2-14. They made they playoffs three years in a row with Alex Smith at QB, but they traded up to the #10 spot in 2017 to pick Mahomes, and they now have 2 Lombardis, and if their OL hadn't been decimated in the playoffs, they could easily have three. The Bills had a string of about 10 losing seasons out of 13, with a string of 17 years but making the playoffs, before they hired Sean McDermott. In McDermott's second year, Buffalo traded up from #12 to #7 to be able to draft Josh Allen. The Eagles have been mostly good, because they have had coaches like Andy Reid and Doug Pederson, but remember, they fired both of those guys, in Pederson's case, only 3 years after he won a SB for them with Carson Wentz and Nick Foles at QB! What is your point? They went 2-14 hired Reid and it took six years of what most on here would consider mediocre football before winning the Super Bowl in Mahomes 2nd year (there has not been a Mahomes in the 2 drafts of this regime to give up the 27th, 91st and the next years 1st) or even a decent QB within striking distance. The Bills have not done anything yet including that includes 3 losing season in 10 years (by the way the Vikings have only had 2 losing season and the same number of play off appearances). The Eagles biggest mistake was Kelly but again no huge roster blow ups. If anything they let stars move on for a payday elsewhere. Again none of those team blew it up.
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Post by gokings on May 2, 2023 16:51:59 GMT -6
I HATE the term blow it up. Not as much as I HATE the term competitive rebuild Its such the emperors new clothes term...cant believe people still fall for it. Unless your the Eagles or 49rs, and I call that ALL IN, just about everyone else is claiming a competitive rebuild...end then there are the few teams blatantly tanking.
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Post by redbird87 on May 2, 2023 18:57:56 GMT -6
The concept of a competitive rebuild is fine if you have the right critical pieces. The Vikings as an example were structured properly for a competitive rebuild when Kwesi took over but he screwed to pooch and held onto and pushed cap of non critical players into future years while not getting any compensation for those players. I put part of the blame on Rick as well as the Vikings should have been sellers of talent at the deadline in Zimmer’s last year when it was clear to everyone we weren’t going anywhere. But Kwesi still had a chance to make it work and is wasting the opportunity.
The 3 most influential positions on a football team are arguably QB, WR and DE….. essentially the ability to score and apply pressure. Frankly this has been KC’s model. When Kwesi took over he had Kirk, Hunter and Jefferson under contract and all had at least 3 more years of solid to elite play in front of them. The key to a competitive rebuild is to keep the SB window open while these key people are in their Primes and drafting as many top end talents as you can get your hands on in the draft giving you not only the best chance at a SB during that 3 year window… but also to acquire as much “Elite” talent as possible on cheap contracts so when that window is up and your Elure players may not be Elite, you can trade or let them walk at the end of their contract. You now have other young elite talents on the team on cheap contracts, holding up the quality of play and now you have cap to be aggressive to fill holes while you draft to replace. But the key is your draft strategy in a comp rebuild is quality over quantity. We didn’t do that. Keese should have extended Kirk through 25 allowing us flex with cap, extended Hunter through the same timeframe and Cut Kendrick’s, Theilen and Smith when he came on board. He would have gotten pics, and would have had plenty of cap space in 23 to fill out his roster. But instead he kept dead weight that did little, it cost us pics and cap going into 23 and he drafted for players who couldn’t contribute right away. And he did it again in 23 with this last draft. We picked 2 people in 23 I think will produce any meaningful snaps and that was our 1st and last picks. Everything else in between will be lucky to see the field in 23 unless injuries create an opp.
But if you aren’t going to execute a comp rebuild properly, then the better decision would have been to trade Kirk and Hunter for a truckload of picks to get us back to competitive as soon as possible.
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Post by VikeNation101 on May 2, 2023 19:06:19 GMT -6
Forever stuck in mediocrity and it doesn’t look like that’s changing anytime soon.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on May 2, 2023 19:16:07 GMT -6
The concept of a competitive rebuild is fine if you have the right critical pieces. The Vikings as an example were structured properly for a competitive rebuild when Kwesi took over but he screwed to pooch and held onto and pushed cap of non critical players into future years while not getting any compensation for those players. I put part of the blame on Rick as well as the Vikings should have been sellers of talent at the deadline in Zimmer’s last year when it was clear to everyone we weren’t going anywhere. But Kwesi still had a chance to make it work and is wasting the opportunity. The 3 most influential positions on a football team are arguably QB, WR and DE….. essentially the ability to score and apply pressure. Frankly this has been KC’s model. When Kwesi took over he had Kirk, Hunter and Jefferson under contract and all had at least 3 more years of solid to elite play in front of them. The key to a competitive rebuild is to keep the SB window open while these key people are in their Primes and drafting as many top end talents as you can get your hands on in the draft giving you not only the best chance at a SB during that 3 year window… but also to acquire as much “Elite” talent as possible on cheap contracts so when that window is up and your Elure players may not be Elite, you can trade or let them walk at the end of their contract. You now have other young elite talents on the team on cheap contracts, holding up the quality of play and now you have cap to be aggressive to fill holes while you draft to replace. But the key is your draft strategy in a comp rebuild is quality over quantity. We didn’t do that. Keese should have extended Kirk through 25 allowing us flex with cap, extended Hunter through the same timeframe and Cut Kendrick’s, Theilen and Smith when he came on board. He would have gotten pics, and would have had plenty of cap space in 23 to fill out his roster. But instead he kept dead weight that did little, it cost us pics and cap going into 23 and he drafted for players who couldn’t contribute right away. And he did it again in 23 with this last draft. We picked 2 people in 23 I think will produce any meaningful snaps and that was our 1st and last picks. Everything else in between will be lucky to see the field in 23 unless injuries create an opp. But if you aren’t going to execute a comp rebuild properly, then the better decision would have been to trade Kirk and Hunter for a truckload of picks to get us back to competitive as soon as possible. QB>EDGE>LT>WR>CB>RT>IDL>IOL>S>ILB>RB That is kinda of the order of things these days. Then in certain cases you have exceptions like Donald who was the first non QB to break 25M per. Remember Trent Williams is making same Avg roughly as Tyreek Hill and he was getting paid top dollar longer and will likely see his entire contract. Erik Armistead (who is not even super elite) makes as much as Adams averages. There are actually a number of OT's and pass rushers that make the very top of WR pay.Obviously JJ and Chase will join that group of WR's making big dough though. Darrisaw will probably end up with a deal near what JJ gets somewhere in the next 2 years and he has not even stayed healthy for a full season yet. I get where you are going though. I think we are in the process of a full rebuild on defense and just a reload on offense. I think having the freedom to move on from Kirk after 23' is actually the right move toward an eventual cap reset.
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