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Post by marshalltohof on May 7, 2024 17:45:48 GMT -6
OK, this article is from near the end of last season and may have been discussed in older threads. But KOC's decision-making from last year has been on my mind. A few simple, kind of no-brainer coaching calls probably would have led to at least three more wins and Vikings would have made the playoffs. Some things I remember: - Failure to spike the ball with time running out in one game. He's got the QB on the headset and can't just tell him to spike it immediately? - Went with ultra-conservative playcalling and called timeouts too early one game (at least). Gave the other team too much time to go down and score for the win. - Ridiculous Powell tush-push play. - Inability to get Dobbs/Mullens to manage turnovers. This may be the biggest reason Vikings missed the playoffs. Mullens 7 TDs vs 8 interceptions. Dobbs 8 TDs vs 8 interceptions/fumbles. Coaching has to take some responsibility for that bad of a ratio. Wondering what others think about this and can we expect him to improve this year?
Should We Be Concerned with Kevin OโConnell? |
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BigRussian
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Post by BigRussian on May 7, 2024 18:24:20 GMT -6
I think we need to put all of this in perspective
KOC and KAM are first timers still learning. Heck even Belichick failed at his first HC job
Hopefully they both learn from their mistakes.
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tavike
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Post by tavike on May 7, 2024 19:40:37 GMT -6
OK, this article is from near the end of last season and may have been discussed in older threads. But KOC's decision-making from last year has been on my mind. A few simple, kind of no-brainer coaching calls probably would have led to at least three more wins and Vikings would have made the playoffs. Some things I remember: - Failure to spike the ball with time running out in one game. He's got the QB on the headset and can't just tell him to spike it immediately? - Went with ultra-conservative playcalling and called timeouts too early one game (at least). Gave the other team too much time to go down and score for the win. - Ridiculous Powell tush-push play. - Inability to get Dobbs/Mullens to manage turnovers. This may be the biggest reason Vikings missed the playoffs. Mullens 7 TDs vs 8 interceptions. Dobbs 8 TDs vs 8 interceptions/fumbles. Coaching has to take some responsibility for that bad of a ratio. Wondering what others think about this and can we expect him to improve this year?
Should We Be Concerned with Kevin OโConnell?I don't see how he could manage the turnovers with Dobbs and Mullens. How do you stop a QB from Fumbling, How do you stop a qb from trying to throw a ball away when he's an inch from being on his ass. How do you stop a QB from throwing a floating duck towards a wide open JJ, thus allowing an easy Int. The other points you make are legit, but I see every coach in the league make those mistakes. Shanahan is the worse at clock management that I've ever seen. Absolutely pitiful. |
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on May 7, 2024 19:43:50 GMT -6
OK, this article is from near the end of last season and may have been discussed in older threads. But KOC's decision-making from last year has been on my mind. A few simple, kind of no-brainer coaching calls probably would have led to at least three more wins and Vikings would have made the playoffs. Some things I remember: - Failure to spike the ball with time running out in one game. He's got the QB on the headset and can't just tell him to spike it immediately? - Went with ultra-conservative playcalling and called timeouts too early one game (at least). Gave the other team too much time to go down and score for the win. - Ridiculous Powell tush-push play. - Inability to get Dobbs/Mullens to manage turnovers. This may be the biggest reason Vikings missed the playoffs. Mullens 7 TDs vs 8 interceptions. Dobbs 8 TDs vs 8 interceptions/fumbles. Coaching has to take some responsibility for that bad of a ratio. Wondering what others think about this and can we expect him to improve this year?
Should We Be Concerned with Kevin OโConnell?Qb should know to spike the ball without a coach telling him. KOC's play calling changed witht he QB, especially DObbs. Dobbs didn't know the playbook and KOC didn't know Dobbs. Recipe for disaster, and we got it. Agree with Powell. Why a tush push witht he smallest guy on the O? Coach has no responsibility on TOs. Those are on the QBs, and those TOs are exactly WHY those two QBs have some of the best helmet collections in the world. The only possible way you could blame the coach is if he kept them int he game if he had any other option, KOC did not. Many pundits rated KOC as one of the 6th best play callers in the league, and I agree. The Powell push notwithstanding, his calls were fine until Cousins got injured. After that, the entire offense was make do with what you have, which was essentially nothing. To the point, I might add, that IMO Mullins played himself off the team. He will be there for TC since they need a 3rd string QB, but should be cut later. |
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Post by marshalltohof on May 7, 2024 19:50:50 GMT -6
I'll disagree about coaching and turnovers. If, as a coach, you know QB turnovers have cost you games then you adjust playcalling accordingly. Call safer passing plays, drill into the QB to throw the ball away when nobody's open. That didn't happen last year.
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shawn3458
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Post by shawn3458 on May 7, 2024 20:04:54 GMT -6
I'll disagree about coaching and turnovers. If, as a coach, you know QB turnovers have cost you games then you adjust playcalling accordingly. Call safer passing plays, drill into the QB to throw the ball away when nobody's open. That didn't happen last year. The running game sucked last year. They had to push the ball down the field throwing. |
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redkangaroo
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Post by redkangaroo on May 7, 2024 20:07:10 GMT -6
Dobbs and Mullins are fringe NFL players at best. I donโt think coaching had a lot to do with their turnovers - I think not being good at playing QB had more to do with their turnovers.
is KOC perfect , no - no coach is. Does he make mistakes, yes - all coaches do. I have zero concerns over KOC as our head coach - according to the NFLPA survey players donโt have concerns either. Leading up to the draft analysts kept talking that Minnesota would be a great landing spot for any of the QBs - in large part because of KOC. If we can agree that Mullins and Dobbs are not very good QBs and that no coaches re perfect and they all make mistakes, coupled with how highly rated our coaching was on the NFLPA survey and the almost unanimous praise of the Vikings being a great landing spot for any of the QBs because of KOC - why in the world should we be worried about KOC. With the exception of Denny Green this is the first time since Bud Grant that I havenโt been worried about our head coach.
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tavike
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Post by tavike on May 7, 2024 20:56:49 GMT -6
I'll disagree about coaching and turnovers. If, as a coach, you know QB turnovers have cost you games then you adjust playcalling accordingly. Call safer passing plays, drill into the QB to throw the ball away when nobody's open. That didn't happen last year. You can call safer plays but then what do you do on third and 10 when you haven't scored and are losing the game by 14 points. What is a safe play? They couldn't run the ball. So I'm assuming you're talking about a safe pass play. I just don't see it. I remember a number of interceptions were made because of terrible passes and boneheaded brain dead QB play. You want to ding Koc on those, but what coach in this league was going to pull a win with Dobbs coming in off the bench without taking a single practice snap and not knowing the offense. It's a damn miracle that the Vikes won 3 games after Cousins went down. |
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Post by marshalltohof on May 7, 2024 21:47:05 GMT -6
Don't think they were down by 14 in the Bears game. They lost 10 to 12 and Dobbs had 4 interceptions. Broncos, Bengals, and Chargers games were also close ones that Vikings should have won. They weren't playing from way behind in the games they choked away.
It's actually those four games that bug me. Win three of those and they probably make the playoffs. Bad end-of-game coaching decisions and way too many turnovers were the difference. I lay responsibility on the head coach. Others may not. I just hope KOC improves this year.
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RF54
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Post by RF54 on May 8, 2024 5:00:15 GMT -6
what good would have come from winning a few more games and making the playoffs? Try to win? sure, you want to win every game but amother loss or two would have been far better for the team as a whole.
KAM, yes, I worry about him as he is learning as he goes. KOC, I look forward to seeing his next 5 - 10 years as he grows and builds the team he wants with young players and CAP room.
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Post by marshalltohof on May 8, 2024 7:58:04 GMT -6
It's not good for my favorite team to make the playoffs. In fact, it would be better for them to have even more losses.
That is not computing with me...
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drhoades
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Post by drhoades on May 8, 2024 9:08:05 GMT -6
It's not good for my favorite team to make the playoffs. In fact, it would be better for them to have even more losses. That is not computing with me... we live in an era where people love watching Goodell announce our selections of amateur crapshoots more than they do watching the team win. |
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tavike
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Post by tavike on May 8, 2024 10:46:52 GMT -6
Don't think they were down by 14 in the Bears game. They lost 10 to 12 and Dobbs had 4 interceptions. Broncos, Bengals, and Chargers games were also close ones that Vikings should have won. They weren't playing from way behind in the games they choked away. It's actually those four games that bug me. Win three of those and they probably make the playoffs. Bad end-of-game coaching decisions and way too many turnovers were the difference. I lay responsibility on the head coach. Others may not. I just hope KOC improves this year. I'll leave you with this stat. Koc as yet to lose a game as a head coach where his team has either won or tied the turnover battle. |
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Post by marshalltohof on May 8, 2024 11:23:03 GMT -6
Thus proving my point turnovers were a major cause for the losses. If the head coach can figure out how to get the team to win the turnover battle more often, like other successful coaches are able to do, the team will be more successful. That should be the #1 point of emphasis for KOC going into 2024. It All Comes Down to Turnover Margin For the 2023 Vikings |
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Post by redbird87 on May 8, 2024 11:44:12 GMT -6
I really like KOC as a head coach and think he has the potential to be a great coach. I think heโs passionate, smart, relatable a good communicator, game plans well and runs a good ship. But I believe he def has some issues he needs to fix/get better at if heโs going to realize his potential as a coach.
1). Heโs at his best at calling plays when heโs aggressive early and or playing from behind. But he has to learn to call plays better when playing with a lead. He really struggles with this, he become too predictable, gets cute when he doesnโt need to be and often times takes the offense out of rhythm leading to punts, allowing teams to stay close or climb back into games. If he canโt he needs to relinquish play calling duties.
2). I think he is too system oriented right now and if heโs going to become a great coach has to learn how find ways to play to his players strengths and be able to adapt better to the rosters heโs dealt. Right now heโs content to pound round pegs in square holes and in an era of cap constraints and constant turnover thatโs going to become a problem. Last year he did little to dumb down his offense, simplify reads, incorporate easier throws to help his backup QBs or play more to what they did well. Instead he asked Dobbs to be a pocket passer while clearly heโs more effective and productive off script and outside the pocket. Another example is Kene. He may not have the vision to be a full time RB, but his mix of speed and power is rare. There is no reason we shouldnโt be utilizing his speed and power to run Jet Sweeps on occasion to stress Defenses getting him to the edge 1-1 with a DB or safety. If you look at KC, they stress Defenses so many ways, defenses are almost always off balanceโฆ that opens up a lot of things. If you have a talentsโฆ find ways to use them.
3). Iโm hoping this comment is purely situational, but in the last Q of the season he started playing not to lose vs. playing to win. If this continuesโฆ this is a problem.
4). Lastโฆ I think he needs to listen to his coaches maybe a bit more. Iโll go back to that Tush Push playโฆ Flores was desperately trying to get him out of that play and he completely ignored him. Itโs great to be confident and head coaches have to be the ultimate decision makers but if youโve got a former HC who is one of your coordinators that emphatic to stop what you are doingโฆ at a minimum you may want to hear them out. His in game decisions late in games has been costly on multiple occasions.
No coach is perfect, but if you look at ones that have been highly successful in the modern eraโฆ they are great game planners which he is, but they also typically find unique ways to utilize player talents and are almost always adapting their systems (not changing but tweaking) to the personnel they have. I think this and his playcalling with a lead is where he really needs to improve.
But, Iโm a big fan and think heโs still learning. As long as we see progress and growth in him as a coach and tackling these areas, even if itโs just one at a time, I think we are in great shape.
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