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Post by skolvike on Apr 29, 2024 11:44:46 GMT -6
So what? No Gm is going to go to his HC and DC in the middle of the season and tell them he's going to trade their best pass rusher because they aren't going to give him the contract he wants at the end of the season and they want a pick for him. Do you know of a better way to rebuild the same extremely caustic relationship Spielman and Zimmer had? KAM's smarter than that, and apparently he feels the working relationship he has with his coach and coordinators is worth more than a future draft pick. This quote is why you should shut up and quit embarrassing yourself. What do you think the trade deadline is every year? It’s when teams smart enough to know they aren’t competitive enough to win a SB get rid of expensive but strong talents that don’t figure into their future for a multitude of reasons. Maybe they are rebuilding, maybe they don’t have the cap to re-sign. If you’re going to throw shade my way at least have a clue wtf you’re talking about! My opinions certainly aren’t always right but at least they are based off rational thought. Yes having an extra 1 st or 2nd for Hunter this year or next would have been really nice instead of getting absolutely nothing. But you keep thinking letting an all pro walk for nothing is a great idea while our team doesnt even make the playoffs let alone a Super Bowl push! The past master of personal embarrassment is giving advice on how not to embarrass himself. Folks, you can't make this shit up.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 12:11:22 GMT -6
It was widely reported that multiple teams made strong offers for Hunter and we wanted more and lost out.
The only reason you do that is if A) you think we are still a SB team which would require a huge offer to pry him away ( if this is the case Kwesi is an idiot because anyone with a brain knew we weren’t going to a SB with our backup QB situation. B). He still figures into your future and you want to resign him and more importantly feel confident you can sign him. ( If this was case it was a gross misjudgment on Kwesi’s part).
Sorry, but there hasn’t been a single major negotiation with existing players that has gone smoothly or turned out the way the team has wished (maybe Hoch…. That back and forth was quiet). In negotiations there are usually 4 outcomes listed in preferred order if you are the GM. A) you get your player on your terms. Nope. B). You meet in the middle and nobody is thrilled. (Hoch I’d expect), C). You can’t find a middle ground and part ways ( Hunter and Cousins and a few more). D). You cave and overpay
The good news is as it pertains to existing players we haven’t had many if any D’s. But he’s also had almost no A or B’s. As a GM C’s are not a positive outcome. C’s mean the GM either misjudged the situation and the cost to retain or overplayed their hand when the desire of the team is to retain the player.
Kwesi had a pretty good to very good draft this year, and a decent offseason FA wise but not trading Hunter at the deadline when teams were offering day 1-2 pics is really inexcusable. When you are not a SB team, you simply can’t let Pro Bowl talent walk out the door for nothing. You either trade them or do what it takes to re-sign them.
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folsomppe
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Post by folsomppe on Apr 29, 2024 12:40:52 GMT -6
It was widely reported that multiple teams made strong offers for Hunter and we wanted more and lost out. The only reason you do that is if A) you think we are still a SB team which would require a huge offer to pry him away ( if this is the case Kwesi is an idiot because anyone with a brain knew we weren’t going to a SB with our backup QB situation. B). He still figures into your future and you want to resign him and more importantly feel confident you can sign him. ( If this was case it was a gross misjudgment on Kwesi’s part). Sorry, but there hasn’t been a single major negotiation with existing players that has gone smoothly or turned out the way the team has wished (maybe Hoch…. That back and forth was quiet). In negotiations there are usually 4 outcomes listed in preferred order if you are the GM. A) you get your player on your terms. Nope. B). You meet in the middle and nobody is thrilled. (Hoch I’d expect), C). You can’t find a middle ground and part ways ( Hunter and Cousins and a few more). D). You cave and overpay The good news is as it pertains to existing players we haven’t had many if any D’s. But he’s also had almost no A or B’s. As a GM C’s are not a positive outcome. C’s mean the GM either misjudged the situation and the cost to retain or overplayed their hand when the desire of the team is to retain the player. Kwesi had a pretty good to very good draft this year, and a decent offseason FA wise but not trading Hunter at the deadline when teams were offering day 1-2 pics is really inexcusable. When you are not a SB team, you simply can’t let Pro Bowl talent walk out the door for nothing. You either trade them or do what it takes to re-sign them. Show me any kind of proof at all that teams were offering day 1-2 picks. That's bullshit.
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Post by smoot4208 on Apr 29, 2024 13:53:16 GMT -6
It was widely reported that multiple teams made strong offers for Hunter and we wanted more and lost out. The only reason you do that is if A) you think we are still a SB team which would require a huge offer to pry him away ( if this is the case Kwesi is an idiot because anyone with a brain knew we weren’t going to a SB with our backup QB situation. B). He still figures into your future and you want to resign him and more importantly feel confident you can sign him. ( If this was case it was a gross misjudgment on Kwesi’s part). Sorry, but there hasn’t been a single major negotiation with existing players that has gone smoothly or turned out the way the team has wished (maybe Hoch…. That back and forth was quiet). In negotiations there are usually 4 outcomes listed in preferred order if you are the GM. A) you get your player on your terms. Nope. B). You meet in the middle and nobody is thrilled. (Hoch I’d expect), C). You can’t find a middle ground and part ways ( Hunter and Cousins and a few more). D). You cave and overpay The good news is as it pertains to existing players we haven’t had many if any D’s. But he’s also had almost no A or B’s. As a GM C’s are not a positive outcome. C’s mean the GM either misjudged the situation and the cost to retain or overplayed their hand when the desire of the team is to retain the player. Kwesi had a pretty good to very good draft this year, and a decent offseason FA wise but not trading Hunter at the deadline when teams were offering day 1-2 pics is really inexcusable. When you are not a SB team, you simply can’t let Pro Bowl talent walk out the door for nothing. You either trade them or do what it takes to re-sign them. Show me any kind of proof at all that teams were offering day 1-2 picks. That's bullshit. If I had to guess, we were offered a 2nd Round pick for him, and figured the difference between that and a known 3rd round comp pick wasn't worth the message it would've sent to the team and fans that at week 8 with Kirk out, we were officially bailing on the season.
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Post by ponifan on Apr 29, 2024 16:40:14 GMT -6
This quote is why you should shut up and quit embarrassing yourself. What do you think the trade deadline is every year? It’s when teams smart enough to know they aren’t competitive enough to win a SB get rid of expensive but strong talents that don’t figure into their future for a multitude of reasons. Maybe they are rebuilding, maybe they don’t have the cap to re-sign. If you’re going to throw shade my way at least have a clue wtf you’re talking about! My opinions certainly aren’t always right but at least they are based off rational thought. Yes having an extra 1 st or 2nd for Hunter this year or next would have been really nice instead of getting absolutely nothing. But you keep thinking letting an all pro walk for nothing is a great idea while our team doesnt even make the playoffs let alone a Super Bowl push! We may think we know what went down but the fact is none of us have a clue. Maybe Kwesi shopped Hunter and the best anyone would give for a 29 year old soon to be free agent was a 6th? A first or second? Extremely doubtful. Maybe they thought they could resign him and then after the season he told the team no chance. Why does any star player hit free agency? It's easy to sit here and blame the GM for not trading a player, but fact is we have no clue.
Yeah, I recall reading writers covering other teams saying that Hunter could be had for a 3rd rounder and another mid round draft choice the following year. It wasn't a big haul. Maybe if the Vikings had traded him during the off-season he would have fetched more, but he was coming off an injury, so other teams would have been wary of paying a high price.
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Post by blackmagic7 on Apr 29, 2024 17:10:48 GMT -6
We need a mental hospital forum
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Post by marshalltohof on Apr 29, 2024 17:24:48 GMT -6
With Hunter, if interest was something like just a 2nd or 3rd rounder makes sense to let him walk after the season and get the comp pick. The team was still making an effort to get into the playoffs; that was not the time for a fire sale.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 18:57:07 GMT -6
This quote is why you should shut up and quit embarrassing yourself. What do you think the trade deadline is every year? It’s when teams smart enough to know they aren’t competitive enough to win a SB get rid of expensive but strong talents that don’t figure into their future for a multitude of reasons. Maybe they are rebuilding, maybe they don’t have the cap to re-sign. If you’re going to throw shade my way at least have a clue wtf you’re talking about! My opinions certainly aren’t always right but at least they are based off rational thought. Yes having an extra 1 st or 2nd for Hunter this year or next would have been really nice instead of getting absolutely nothing. But you keep thinking letting an all pro walk for nothing is a great idea while our team doesnt even make the playoffs let alone a Super Bowl push! The past master of personal embarrassment is giving advice on how not to embarrass himself. Folks, you can't make this shit up. Please tell me how often I’ve embarrassed myself repeatedly on this board. I don’t profess to be right all the time, nobody is. I certainly didn’t get my Mac Jones wish right. I thought Booth was a good value pic in Rd2 as a consensus 1st rd pic by most analysts…. wrong. I said I liked Udoh better than most and that while he was the only OL we had at the time that could actually anchor he was better suited to T than G. I’d have hoped he could maybe make that conversion to guard but he’s incredibly long to play OG. I don’t know that I’d mark that up to a total failure in assessment but overall he played well at tackle when asked to play. He had some gas games but so has O’Neil. There have been other thoughts I got wrong as well. This board has some really good posters, but I’ll put my track record in thoughts up against anyone’s… I may not be the most accurate, but I certainly haven’t embarrassed myself. Did I embarrass myself when I posted a widely reported article that Kwesi is on the hot seat from one of the most respected sports journalists out there? Maybe it was when I suggested pre draft the Vikings might want to explore if Herbert was available if Harbaugh wanted JJ… which according to Schefter they wound up doing. Maybe it’s when I suggested no QB in play this year was a better risk return pick tan JJ McCarthy. Was it when I said the Vikings should have moved on from Zimmer after Kirk’s first year when he never coached the same following the conservative meltdown in the 2nd half of the Minn Miracle game. Maybe it’s when I said Kirk had turned the corner 2 1/2 years ago before he put in his 2 best career years as a QB, led the league in 4th Q comebacks and carried this team on his shoulders all of 23 before getting injured! Did I embarrassed myself when I said Mond was a horrible pick? Maybe I embarresed myself when I blast Kwesi for trading back from 11/12 (can’t remember to 30 and then took a total project at safety of all things. Maybe it’s when I said drafting a 5-10 170 lb CB was a mistake when now a 6’4” inch CB is what Flores wants. Well which one is it… do we like long and tall CB’s or do we like 5’10 slow corners who are feisty?? Maybe it’s when I blast Spielman’s entire last draft as turds other than Darrisaw. (Acknowledgement… I didn’t want to trade back for Darrisaw I thought the Vikings should have jumped at Mac Jones as an opp to get at Rd1 graded QB to groom without having to trade picks to get). But I never digged Darrisaw as a player, just thought we should have used the opp to get a QB to groom. Maybe it’s when I said Addison is the only above average player to come out of any of Kwesi’s drafts prior to this year. Maybe I embarrassed myself when I said Murphy Jr, was a good signing and a good player but fans were ahead of themselves if they thought he was a shutdown corner. Maybe I embarrassed myself when I said Davenport if he could stay healthy could be the best signing, but I thought the price was extreme and the contract was a no win for us. If he was a bust we drastically overpaid and if he was successful we would be able to afford to keep him. I’ve openly acknowledged that this was Kwesi’s best draft to date by a landslide, and not because the players are all studs, but because the approach he took was so much better. But I’m far from alone in believing his tenure prior from this past weekend has been highly questionable. Draft decisions, trade values and contract negotiations have all been questionable and concerning. And I’m sorry if you don’t agree and don’t like it , but I’m far from the only person that sees it that way. I apologize to the board overall, while I have often differed in opinions over the years, I have always respected and appreciated other views even if they differed than mine and always tried to treat other posters with respect regardless if they agree or disagree with my takes. But over the last few months I’m frankly tired of being targeted and berated by a few posters on this board. So, if any of you want to compare records on issues ….I will likely lose to a few great posters, be on par with most but I’ve certainly not embarrassed myself over the years. But for the few smart asses on the board… put your money where you F’n mouth is… I’ll bet my track record on calls against yours all day long and bury your asses!! Again sorry to 98% of posters, that is not directed at any of you. I have the utmost respect and appreciate the different viewpoints each of you share on a regular basis and thank you all for making this board mostly enjoyable, entertaining and fun to be a part of.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 18:58:22 GMT -6
We may think we know what went down but the fact is none of us have a clue. Maybe Kwesi shopped Hunter and the best anyone would give for a 29 year old soon to be free agent was a 6th? A first or second? Extremely doubtful. Maybe they thought they could resign him and then after the season he told the team no chance. Why does any star player hit free agency? It's easy to sit here and blame the GM for not trading a player, but fact is we have no clue.
Yeah, I recall reading writers covering other teams saying that Hunter could be had for a 3rd rounder and another mid round draft choice the following year. It wasn't a big haul. Maybe if the Vikings had traded him during the off-season he would have fetched more, but he was coming off an injury, so other teams would have been wary of paying a high price.
He wasn’t coming off an injury. Just a note. He was 2 years removed from his neck issues with no residual signs.
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Post by redbird87 on Apr 29, 2024 19:01:03 GMT -6
With Hunter, if interest was something like just a 2nd or 3rd rounder makes sense to let him walk after the season and get the comp pick. The team was still making an effort to get into the playoffs; that was not the time for a fire sale. We aren’t getting a comp and a 2nd or 3rd plus another mid rd(2-4) would have been extremely useful to land a G or DT this year or next! Not sure how that’s a non issue in anyone’s book!
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Post by marshalltohof on Apr 29, 2024 19:57:56 GMT -6
Vikings Comp Pick Update: Two 2025 Third-Rounders On the Board"Because the Vikings have lost six CFAs to other teams and signed four CFAs, they're in line to get third-round picks from Kirk Cousins and Danielle Hunter, who have signed two of the three biggest free agent contracts in the league (in terms of average annual value) this spring." Edit: Vikings signed Shaq Griffin right after that article came out so that probably effects one of the third rounders. They'll likely get more than just the one third though...
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JR44
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Post by JR44 on Apr 29, 2024 20:36:58 GMT -6
Vikings Comp Pick Update: Two 2025 Third-Rounders On the Board"Because the Vikings have lost six CFAs to other teams and signed four CFAs, they're in line to get third-round picks from Kirk Cousins and Danielle Hunter, who have signed two of the three biggest free agent contracts in the league (in terms of average annual value) this spring." Edit: Vikings signed Shaq Griffin right after that article came out so that probably effects one of the third rounders. They'll likely get more than just the one third though... The Griffin signign was just awful if it is really going to cost us a 3rd, at this point in his career he is no where close worth to a 3rd, think of Jackson who we just got in the 4th this weekend who has so much more value for us. Just a real head scratcher. Do not think there were teams lining up to sign him so why not wait until the 29th after the comp picks were set.
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Post by skolvike on Apr 29, 2024 20:45:41 GMT -6
Yeah, I recall reading writers covering other teams saying that Hunter could be had for a 3rd rounder and another mid round draft choice the following year. It wasn't a big haul. Maybe if the Vikings had traded him during the off-season he would have fetched more, but he was coming off an injury, so other teams would have been wary of paying a high price.
He wasn’t coming off an injury. Just a note. He was 2 years removed from his neck issues with no residual signs. .
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Post by skolvike on Apr 29, 2024 20:47:10 GMT -6
The past master of personal embarrassment is giving advice on how not to embarrass himself. Folks, you can't make this shit up. Please tell me how often I’ve embarrassed myself repeatedly on this board. I don’t profess to be right all the time, nobody is. I certainly didn’t get my Mac Jones wish right. I thought Booth was a good value pic in Rd2 as a consensus 1st rd pic by most analysts…. wrong. I said I liked Udoh better than most and that while he was the only OL we had at the time that could actually anchor he was better suited to T than G. I’d have hoped he could maybe make that conversion to guard but he’s incredibly long to play OG. I don’t know that I’d mark that up to a total failure in assessment but overall he played well at tackle when asked to play. He had some gas games but so has O’Neil. There have been other thoughts I got wrong as well. This board has some really good posters, but I’ll put my track record in thoughts up against anyone’s… I may not be the most accurate, but I certainly haven’t embarrassed myself. Did I embarrass myself when I posted a widely reported article that Kwesi is on the hot seat from one of the most respected sports journalists out there? Maybe it was when I suggested pre draft the Vikings might want to explore if Herbert was available if Harbaugh wanted JJ… which according to Schefter they wound up doing. Maybe it’s when I suggested no QB in play this year was a better risk return pick tan JJ McCarthy. Was it when I said the Vikings should have moved on from Zimmer after Kirk’s first year when he never coached the same following the conservative meltdown in the 2nd half of the Minn Miracle game. Maybe it’s when I said Kirk had turned the corner 2 1/2 years ago before he put in his 2 best career years as a QB, led the league in 4th Q comebacks and carried this team on his shoulders all of 23 before getting injured! Did I embarrassed myself when I said Mond was a horrible pick? Maybe I embarresed myself when I blast Kwesi for trading back from 11/12 (can’t remember to 30 and then took a total project at safety of all things. Maybe it’s when I said drafting a 5-10 170 lb CB was a mistake when now a 6’4” inch CB is what Flores wants. Well which one is it… do we like long and tall CB’s or do we like 5’10 slow corners who are feisty?? Maybe it’s when I blast Spielman’s entire last draft as turds other than Darrisaw. (Acknowledgement… I didn’t want to trade back for Darrisaw I thought the Vikings should have jumped at Mac Jones as an opp to get at Rd1 graded QB to groom without having to trade picks to get). But I never digged Darrisaw as a player, just thought we should have used the opp to get a QB to groom. Maybe it’s when I said Addison is the only above average player to come out of any of Kwesi’s drafts prior to this year. Maybe I embarrassed myself when I said Murphy Jr, was a good signing and a good player but fans were ahead of themselves if they thought he was a shutdown corner. Maybe I embarrassed myself when I said Davenport if he could stay healthy could be the best signing, but I thought the price was extreme and the contract was a no win for us. If he was a bust we drastically overpaid and if he was successful we would be able to afford to keep him. I’ve openly acknowledged that this was Kwesi’s best draft to date by a landslide, and not because the players are all studs, but because the approach he took was so much better. But I’m far from alone in believing his tenure prior from this past weekend has been highly questionable. Draft decisions, trade values and contract negotiations have all been questionable and concerning. And I’m sorry if you don’t agree and don’t like it , but I’m far from the only person that sees it that way. I apologize to the board overall, while I have often differed in opinions over the years, I have always respected and appreciated other views even if they differed than mine and always tried to treat other posters with respect regardless if they agree or disagree with my takes. But over the last few months I’m frankly tired of being targeted and berated by a few posters on this board. So, if any of you want to compare records on issues ….I will likely lose to a few great posters, be on par with most but I’ve certainly not embarrassed myself over the years. But for the few smart asses on the board… put your money where you F’n mouth is… I’ll bet my track record on calls against yours all day long and bury your asses!! Again sorry to 98% of posters, that is not directed at any of you. I have the utmost respect and appreciate the different viewpoints each of you share on a regular basis and thank you all for making this board mostly enjoyable, entertaining and fun to be a part of. TL;DR
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Post by marshalltohof on Apr 29, 2024 20:49:50 GMT -6
The Griffin signign was just awful if it is really going to cost us a 3rd, at this point in his career he is no where close worth to a 3rd, think of Jackson who we just got in the 4th this weekend who has so much more value for us. Just a real head scratcher. Do not think there were teams lining up to sign him so why not wait until the 29th after the comp picks were set. I don't think it wipes out getting a pick, just bumps it down from a third to a fourth or fifth maybe. The NFL doesn't say what exactly the formula is for comp picks. Edit: I looked at Overthecap just now, they show projected comp picks. Looks like new signings wiped out the losses except for Cousins so they show just the one third rounder.
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