intrepid
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Post by intrepid on Sept 20, 2022 15:58:23 GMT -6
Hurts is the future and Cousins is the past. It was so clearly evident last night how much more dynamic an offense can be when a QB is a running threat. Yes, this has been tried before with mixed results, but clearly enough has changed in the league in the last 10 years to make a running threat QB almost a necessity at this point.
Obvious Advantages of the running QB:
No chance of a fumbled handoff.
You cant just abandon your coverage assignment and just tackle him or he'll throw over the top of you.
Rule changes make tackling QBs an almost impossible challenge in self control.
You cant even imtimidate them with a hard legal hit or you are flagged.
The threat of a run opens up so many more possibilities and variables.
Honestly, its such an advantage now that the only remaining successful pocket passers have to be nearly perfect passers to be effective. In the past, very few QBs could run and pass effectively. And most were seriously injured within 2 years. Now its gone the way of the automatic 50+ yard field goal kicker or 100 MPH fastball pitchers...they are everywhere now.
Its a shame because it took us many years to find a good pocket passer and now that we have one, they are no longer in style and everyones moved to a better model.
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avguy
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Post by avguy on Sept 20, 2022 17:49:00 GMT -6
The past GM/coaches wanted the same type of guy with the pick of the flawed Mond. We had Joe Webb here for awhile.
I am really kinda ODβd on pocket passers, the reigning king of them is 45 yrs old GOAT in TB.
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purplevein
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Post by purplevein on Sept 20, 2022 18:12:11 GMT -6
Rams won the Super Bowl last year with Matthew Stafford, and heβs not a running quarterback.
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JR44
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Post by JR44 on Sept 20, 2022 18:15:59 GMT -6
Jalen Hurts is a lower tier QB, he would be somewhere in the 15-22 range of most rankings. He is not elite in any way. Let's put it into perspective, last week against the Lions he completed 56% of his passes for 243 yards and no TDs. Last year in 15 starts he had 16 TD and 9 picks.
Last night was about the complete ineptness of a clueless DC who for some inexplicable reason could not figure out for an entire game that when you play your secondary 15 yards off the ball that you leave the WRs wide open. You could have taken the local High School QB from your neighborhood and he could have thrown for 200 yards against the scheme we were running last night.
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2012mom
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Post by 2012mom on Sept 20, 2022 18:19:58 GMT -6
Jalen Hurts is a lower tier QB, he would be somewhere in the 15-22 range of most rankings. Β He is not elite in any way. Β Let's put it into perspective, last week against the Lions he completed 56% of his passes for 243 yards and no TDs. Β Last year in 15 starts he had 16 TD and 9 picks. Β Last night was about the complete ineptness of a clueless DC who for some inexplicable reason could not figure out for an entire game that when you play your secondary 15 yards off the ball that you leave the WRs wide open. Β You could have taken the local High School QB from your neighborhood and he could have thrown for 200 yards against the scheme we were running last night. Β No disagreement regarding the Swiss cheese the Vikings called a defense last night, but when your QB throws three INTs, you're going to lose nearly all the time. |
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Post by redbird87 on Sept 20, 2022 18:25:53 GMT -6
Game was lost well before the 2nd interception. Only reason they didnβt score 2nd half is because they dialed back and got more conservative. If we scoreβ¦ that doesnβt happen.
But yes you are correctβ¦ you arenβt going to win many 3 into games
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tavike
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Post by tavike on Sept 20, 2022 18:27:42 GMT -6
Hurts is the future and Cousins is the past. It was so clearly evident last night how much more dynamic an offense can be when a QB is a running threat. Yes, this has been tried before with mixed results, but clearly enough has changed in the league in the last 10 years to make a running threat QB almost a necessity at this point. Obvious Advantages of the running QB: No chance of a fumbled handoff. You cant just abandon your coverage assignment and just tackle him or he'll throw over the top of you. Rule changes make tackling QBs an almost impossible challenge in self control. You cant even imtimidate them with a hard legal hit or you are flagged. The threat of a run opens up so many more possibilities and variables. Honestly, its such an advantage now that the only remaining successful pocket passers have to be nearly perfect passers to be effective. In the past, very few QBs could run and pass effectively. And most were seriously injured within 2 years. Now its gone the way of the automatic 50+ yard field goal kicker or 100 MPH fastball pitchers...they are everywhere now. Its a shame because it took us many years to find a good pocket passer and now that we have one, they are no longer in style and everyones moved to a better model. It helps the future when the defense he faces has 1 player within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage, not counting the pass rushers. 1 linebacker to cover 40 square yards of the field. I don't think the math works out to well. |
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tavike
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Post by tavike on Sept 20, 2022 18:29:32 GMT -6
Jalen Hurts is a lower tier QB, he would be somewhere in the 15-22 range of most rankings. He is not elite in any way. Let's put it into perspective, last week against the Lions he completed 56% of his passes for 243 yards and no TDs. Last year in 15 starts he had 16 TD and 9 picks. Last night was about the complete ineptness of a clueless DC who for some inexplicable reason could not figure out for an entire game that when you play your secondary 15 yards off the ball that you leave the WRs wide open. You could have taken the local High School QB from your neighborhood and he could have thrown for 200 yards against the scheme we were running last night. The worse thing is he never even showed a different coverage as a fake coverage just to make hurts think a little bit. No one ever moved. |
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kato70s
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Post by kato70s on Sept 20, 2022 18:33:20 GMT -6
It's absurd in present day sports for a d coord to run that scheme...And get repetitive 3 and outs - yet no one shook his tree? ...to adjust ... employ plan b or c. (Assuming he had one).
Plenty of blame on offense too. But own it, make necessary changes. Jury is out.
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Post by rooscooter on Sept 20, 2022 21:09:10 GMT -6
There have been few.... very few "running" QB's who are truly skilled QB's. After one lower leg injury they get exposed quick. It's the "new thing" again after 10 years since the last time it was.
Not saying that they can't be successful but it's a much bigger gamble for a team relying on one person for so much of the offense.
That said, for the people who coach imaginary fantasy teams they are great.
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Post by wolfpack87 on Sept 20, 2022 21:13:51 GMT -6
I dont know if Jalen Hurts is the future, but its certainly a lot easier to win with a QB that can move instead of an absolute statue in the pocket, particularly with an average o-line.
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Post by redbird87 on Sept 20, 2022 21:46:25 GMT -6
That must be why so many running QBβs have SB rings!!
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Post by redbird87 on Sept 20, 2022 22:00:17 GMT -6
I dont know if Jalen Hurts is the future, but its certainly a lot easier to win with a QB that can move instead of an absolute statue in the pocket, particularly with an average o-line.Β Brady, Breese, Manning, Manning, Folesβ¦ none were great runners but they sure have a lot of SB rings in last 10 years! How many SBβs do Vick, Murray, L Jackson have? Running QBβs thus far have 2 SBβs in the last 25 years (A Rod, Mahomes). If Running QBβs are so great why does A Rodgers only have 1 ring while Eli manning has 2?? The Running QB trend has had a bit of success lately with Allen and Mahomes but Iβll take a great pocket passer any day of the week! |
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Post by wolfpack87 on Sept 20, 2022 22:19:46 GMT -6
I dont know if Jalen Hurts is the future, but its certainly a lot easier to win with a QB that can move instead of an absolute statue in the pocket, particularly with an average o-line. Brady, Breese, Manning, Manning, Folesβ¦ none were great runners but they sure have a lot of SB rings in last 10 years! How many SBβs do Vick, Murray, L Jackson have? Running QBβs thus far have 2 SBβs in the last 25 years (A Rod, Mahomes). If Running QBβs are so great why does A Rodgers only have 1 ring while Eli manning has 2?? The Running QB trend has had a bit of success lately with Allen and Mahomes but Iβll take a great pocket passer any day of the week! Didnt say QBs had to be "running QBs". Simply said QBs that can move. Once Brady retires this year, all those guys listed will be retired. Who are the next great pocket passing statues in the league that will pick up the slack and win all these titles? The league is changing. I'll venture a guess that Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Murray or Jackson will win several more titles than the Jared Goffs, Kirk Cousins, Mac Jones, Matt Ryans, Joe Burrows, etc of the world. |
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2012mom
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Post by 2012mom on Sept 21, 2022 0:06:36 GMT -6
I dont know if Jalen Hurts is the future, but its certainly a lot easier to win with a QB that can move instead of an absolute statue in the pocket, particularly with an average o-line.Β Brady, Breese, Manning, Manning, Folesβ¦ none were great runners but they sure have a lot of SB rings in last 10 years! How many SBβs do Vick, Murray, L Jackson have? Running QBβs thus far have 2 SBβs in the last 25 years (A Rod, Mahomes). If Running QBβs are so great why does A Rodgers only have 1 ring while Eli manning has 2?? The Running QB trend has had a bit of success lately with Allen and Mahomes but Iβll take a great pocket passer any day of the week! Eli Manning has two rings because he was on teams with better defenses than Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre, not because Manning was a great QB. 2007: David Tyree made the helmet catch, and the Giants defense held four straight playoff teams to 20 or fewer points per game. 2011: The Giants were 7-7 at one point, and they squeaked into the playoffs at 9-7. Once in the playoffs, that defense got nasty. They held Atlanta to 2 points (great QB Manning called for intentional grounding in the end zone). Then they prevented Rodgers and Green Bay from moving on, by forcing GB into 4 turnovers. They then limited San Francisco and New England to 17 points each. Manning played well, but the defense earned 2 points on a safety, and the Giants kicker accounted for as many points as Manning did. |
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