sleepy
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Leber
Jul 17, 2022 16:46:21 GMT -6
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Post by sleepy on Jul 17, 2022 16:46:21 GMT -6
Really threw Zimmer under the bus
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2012mom
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Post by 2012mom on Jul 17, 2022 17:20:34 GMT -6
Really threw Zimmer under the bus How did Leber throw Zimmer under the bus? - He said that the offense was top ten, even with a completely green OC. That's not quite true, but it's close, as the offense finished 14th in points and 12th in yards, even after Kirk missed the GB game. - He said that Zimmer didn't like Cousins. No shit, Sherlock. Did anyone really need for Leber to say it to know it was true? - He said that Cousins might flourish with an offensive coach who values him. Personally, I think that Zimmer brought out the, "I'll show you" aspect of Cousins, which made him better the past year and a half, but the argument that feeling valued might make Cousins better Is a reasonable argument. - He pointed out just how terrible the defense was in both '20 and '21. Should be have mentioned the various injuries? Maybe, but stating that the defense couldn't stop the run and gave up the most points ever in 2 minute situations is simple fact.
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Leber
Jul 17, 2022 17:34:44 GMT -6
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Post by drhoades1 on Jul 17, 2022 17:34:44 GMT -6
Exactly Mom. Leber stated the obvious
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zenzabar
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Leber
Jul 17, 2022 17:57:49 GMT -6
Post by zenzabar on Jul 17, 2022 17:57:49 GMT -6
i dont know if i whole hearted agree with that assessment myself...think leber had more issues with zimmer personally
qb coach an oc changes constantly...one thing missed is out of all the confusion with the rotating door of OC's was zimmers influence in wanting cousins to be more aggressive and that did show up in his play an the dividends
i personally hold the oc's an staff involvement more than zimmer but thats just my opinion...easy to blame one guy but in all seriousness its a complete team effort
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Jul 17, 2022 18:40:02 GMT -6
Really threw Zimmer under the bus How did Leber throw Zimmer under the bus? - He said that the offense was top ten, even with a completely green OC. That's not quite true, but it's close, as the offense finished 14th in points and 12th in yards, even after Kirk missed the GB game. - He said that Zimmer didn't like Cousins. No shit, Sherlock. Did anyone really need for Leber to say it to know it was true? - He said that Cousins might flourish with an offensive coach who values him. Personally, I think that Zimmer brought out the, "I'll show you" aspect of Cousins, which made him better the past year and a half, but the argument that feeling valued might make Cousins better Is a reasonable argument. - He pointed out just how terrible the defense was in both '20 and '21. Should be have mentioned the various injuries? Maybe, but stating that the defense couldn't stop the run and gave up the most points ever in 2 minute situations is simple fact. Your final point is the only point that really matters. Zimmer was supposed to be a D guru. Nobody with that reputation should EVER field a D with that level of disfunction. It was so bad it makes me wonder if he did it on purpose, because I can't see how it could be that bad without intent. Is that why he played a soft zone half the time, KNOWING the Vikes got burnt every time he did? Whether he did or not, Leber didn't throw him under the bus, Zimmer crawled under it all by himself.
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skolvike
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Post by skolvike on Jul 17, 2022 18:51:36 GMT -6
i dont know if i whole hearted agree with that assessment myself...think leber had more issues with zimmer personally
qb coach an oc changes constantly...one thing missed is out of all the confusion with the rotating door of OC's was zimmers influence in wanting cousins to be more aggressive and that did show up in his play an the dividends
i personally hold the oc's an staff involvement more than zimmer but thats just my opinion...easy to blame one guy but in all seriousness its a complete team effort How was Cousins supposed to be more aggressive when he was never allowed to audible at the LOS? That's a major part of any QB's aggression. Second, Zimmer was the HC, and the buck stopped there. He ruled all aspects of the game -- including the O -- with an iron fist. OCs were required to play his stupid run run pass punt offense regardless of their knowledge, opponent or game situation. That's why most of them quit after a year (and Turner halfway through the year) and the only one who refused to submit to Zimmer's orders (DeFilippo) was fired half way through the season for "scoring too many points." Everything always points back to Zimmer. I think Spielman lost his job because of his inability to can Zimmer before all of this came to a head. IIRC the HC works for the GM, not the other way around. That means Spielman had the power and lost his job for letting that hate between Zimmer and him ruin the team for 2 years.
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tavike
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Leber
Jul 17, 2022 22:29:18 GMT -6
Post by tavike on Jul 17, 2022 22:29:18 GMT -6
Maybe Zimmer wanted a QB who would tell him to shove it up his ass once in a while like Simms used to do to Parcells. Cousins was not the guy.
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Post by frantheman10 on Jul 18, 2022 4:05:35 GMT -6
Bottom line is that it was painfully obvious by the end of the 2019 season that Zimmer and Cousins was not going to work. If Cousins was extended then Zimmer should have been fired and a new O minded coach brought in to work with the QB. If the team was sticking with Zimmer then Kirk should have been allowed to play out his contract after 2020 and the money redeployed to fixing the D. Extending both for 2020 and 2021 was an idiotic decision that wasted two seasons that could have been spent rebuilding. The last two years were the worst possible outcome: no playoffs, no high picks and no new coaching philosophy. Thatβs on Rick and the Wilfs but owners donβt get fired so bye bye Ricky.
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zenzabar
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Leber
Jul 18, 2022 6:30:52 GMT -6
Post by zenzabar on Jul 18, 2022 6:30:52 GMT -6
i dont know if i whole hearted agree with that assessment myself...think leber had more issues with zimmer personally
qb coach an oc changes constantly...one thing missed is out of all the confusion with the rotating door of OC's was zimmers influence in wanting cousins to be more aggressive and that did show up in his play an the dividends
i personally hold the oc's an staff involvement more than zimmer but thats just my opinion...easy to blame one guy but in all seriousness its a complete team effort How was Cousins supposed to be more aggressive when he was never allowed to audible at the LOS? That's a major part of any QB's aggression. Second, Zimmer was the HC, and the buck stopped there. He ruled all aspects of the game -- including the O -- with an iron fist. OCs were required to play his stupid run run pass punt offense regardless of their knowledge, opponent or game situation. That's why most of them quit after a year (and Turner halfway through the year) and the only one who refused to submit to Zimmer's orders (DeFilippo) was fired half way through the season for "scoring too many points." Everything always points back to Zimmer. I think Spielman lost his job because of his inability to can Zimmer before all of this came to a head. IIRC the HC works for the GM, not the other way around. That means Spielman had the power and lost his job for letting that hate between Zimmer and him ruin the team for 2 years. i dont do this butt hurt bs
life is having to have personality conflicts with people an overcoming that fact an getting the job done... weve all heard the bs one sided story...wish zimmer would tell his side but itll never happen
whole truth is far better than one sided garbage imo
example?....russian collusion! russian collusion! zimmer is a russian asset is all this bullshit is anymore....nobody knows the full story an until people do i think folks should just let it go...seriously...things have changed an the teams moved on...let it the f*ck go already....
personally leber should have kept his mouth shut...there was nothing to be gained by this
and ill add this...what happened between cousins an zimmer should come from cousins or zimmer and not leber flapping his gums...ive lost a lot of respect i had for leber gossiping bs
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mjollnir
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Leber
Jul 18, 2022 9:18:12 GMT -6
Post by mjollnir on Jul 18, 2022 9:18:12 GMT -6
How was Cousins supposed to be more aggressive when he was never allowed to audible at the LOS? That's a major part of any QB's aggression. Second, Zimmer was the HC, and the buck stopped there. He ruled all aspects of the game -- including the O -- with an iron fist. OCs were required to play his stupid run run pass punt offense regardless of their knowledge, opponent or game situation. That's why most of them quit after a year (and Turner halfway through the year) and the only one who refused to submit to Zimmer's orders (DeFilippo) was fired half way through the season for "scoring too many points." Everything always points back to Zimmer. I think Spielman lost his job because of his inability to can Zimmer before all of this came to a head. IIRC the HC works for the GM, not the other way around. That means Spielman had the power and lost his job for letting that hate between Zimmer and him ruin the team for 2 years. i dont do this butt hurt bs
life is having to have personality conflicts with people an overcoming that fact an getting the job done... weve all heard the bs one sided story...wish zimmer would tell his side but itll never happen
whole truth is far better than one sided garbage imo
example?....russian collusion! russian collusion! zimmer is a russian asset is all this bullshit is anymore....nobody knows the full story an until people do i think folks should just let it go...seriously...things have changed an the teams moved on...let it the f*ck go already....
personally leber should have kept his mouth shut...there was nothing to be gained by this
and ill add this...what happened between cousins an zimmer should come from cousins or zimmer and not leber flapping his gums...ive lost a lot of respect i had for leber gossiping bsYour last sentence is contradictory to your first. It is the slow time in the news cycle. Leber is hoping like we all are Kirk can elevate his game with support vs. what ever he got from Zimmer. I don't buy Zimmer sabotaging the Defense but I do buy the players lost confidence in the scheme and therefore Zimmer lost the team.
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Leber
Jul 18, 2022 10:02:40 GMT -6
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Post by purpletrouble on Jul 18, 2022 10:02:40 GMT -6
Zimmer deserved the criticism. It was obvious that he had a clear disconnect with Cousins, and his precious defense was ranked near the bottom the last 2 years.
Time for this team to move into the 21st coaching century.
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kato70s
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Leber
Jul 18, 2022 10:36:32 GMT -6
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Post by kato70s on Jul 18, 2022 10:36:32 GMT -6
Plenty of blame to go around. Zimmer got tired, worried, in poor health and out dated. Kirk is who his stats W/L say he is.
Kirk is getting an extra chance, whether merited or not. Zim also got extra chance/s.
Moving on...you have Kirk and new people in charge. They need to be held accountable from time of hire/re-signing (extension), already on clock. I hope that happens so we stop wasting time/years between now and a SB Win.
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Post by purpletrouble on Jul 18, 2022 11:21:27 GMT -6
and his precious defense was ranked near the bottom the last 2 years. You don't think personnel had anything to do with that? He just got stupid about defense in an offseason? I think it was mostly personnel There was a lot of bad defensive play calling mixed in with the personnel groupings.
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brick
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Post by brick on Jul 18, 2022 11:24:42 GMT -6
Zimmer didn't like any quarterback not named Bridgewater.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Jul 18, 2022 11:51:15 GMT -6
I think it was very obvious on Black Monday the players expressed some feelings of letting Rick down and the need for change from Zimmer. Quite guys like Kendricks and O'Neill expressing openly there was a culture issue very telling. When Kendricks got interviewed from home on it he expressed no interest in talking to Zim the Elder, but had already talked to Zim's son who he seemed to like. I have no idea why Leber feels the need to rehash 6 month old dirty laundry? Kirk was a symptom the problem is Rick and Mike had a breakdown or loss of trust between themselves. The thing is Mike might have been right that Kirk was not the right direction to go in 2018, but it was still his job to try and make it work. The problem once again was the breakdown of Rick and Mike's relationship and Kirk was just a catalyst for it.
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