taz24
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Post by taz24 on Feb 28, 2022 21:54:54 GMT -6
Zim had his run and then it went south. He did some good things here but seemed to become less effective as time went on.
I think there is little doubt that Zim never wanted Cousins. Never meshed with Cousins. Probably felt like the idea of a milk toast leading his team to the promised land was laughable.
Spellie was a piss poor GM and he laid Cousins on Zim and a lot of other unworkable parts.
I am ready to move on from all of them. Zim, Spellie and Cousins.
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Post by iceratz16 on Mar 1, 2022 7:32:25 GMT -6
The ability to galvanize teammates and make them betterβ¦.the ability to lead men. This is called leadership. It has nothing to do with arm talent or athletic ability. Itβs the one thing Zim was looking for when he had a great defense and a QB on a rookie contract. TBβs injury ended Zimβs chance of every realizing his plan and he knew it when it happened. I feel bad for him. There are many ways to win a championship and he tried one way. The Vikes are now trying another. You feel bad for a grown man who made his bed with how many OC's in his tenure(?), didn't want to sit down one-on-one with his key offensive player (and highest paid player) and communicate a game plan, clear the air or manage his issues behind closed doors, and couldn't get along with the GM? Are you serious? "...he tried one way." Rainbows and unicorns...hugs and high fives...participation trophies for all! |
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Post by VikingBerserker on Mar 1, 2022 8:17:55 GMT -6
You feel bad for a grown man who made his bed with how many OC's in his tenure(?), didn't want to sit down one-on-one with his key offensive player (and highest paid player) and communicate a game plan, clear the air or manage his issues behind closed doors, and couldn't get along with the GM? Are you serious? "...he tried one way." Rainbows and unicorns...hugs and high fives...participation trophies for all!
To be fair - most of these OC's left for HC jobs (or were old and retired). Some rumors there was friction when Norv resigned but only one Zim "fired" was DeFilippo. But you make it sound like Zim was hiring and firing left and right. Ironically to your point, the talk all last year was Zimmer and Cousins were watching film together this season for first time -- so as far as we know we maybe did accept KC at the end (but the writing was on the wall for Zimm when they didn't make playoffs).
Norv Turner 2014-2016 - resigned (possible drama at end) - couple years later was OC for Panthers until quitting for good (2018-2019)
Pat Shurmur - 2017 - Left to be Giants HC
John DeFilippo - 2018 - fired - later Jags OC in 2019, then Bears QB coach 2020-2021
Kevin Stefanski - 2019 - left to be Browns HC (2020-present)
Gary Kubiak - 2020 - retired (and gave job to his kid)
Klint Kubiak - 2021 - gone with Zim and Rick being fired. Now QB coach Broncos
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Post by iceratz16 on Mar 1, 2022 9:23:41 GMT -6
Are you serious? "...he tried one way." Rainbows and unicorns...hugs and high fives...participation trophies for all!
To be fair - most of these OC's left for HC jobs (or were old and retired). Some rumors there was friction when Norv resigned but only one Zim "fired" was DeFilippo. But you make it sound like Zim was hiring and firing left and right. Ironically to your point, the talk all last year was Zimmer and Cousins were watching film together this season for first time -- so as far as we know we maybe did accept KC at the end (but the writing was on the wall for Zimm when they didn't make playoffs).
Norv Turner 2014-2016 - resigned (possible drama at end) - couple years later was OC for Panthers until quitting for good (2018-2019)
Pat Shurmur - 2017 - Left to be Giants HC
John DeFilippo - 2018 - fired - later Jags OC in 2019, then Bears QB coach 2020-2021
Kevin Stefanski - 2019 - left to be Browns HC (2020-present)
Gary Kubiak - 2020 - retired (and gave job to his kid)
Klint Kubiak - 2021 - gone with Zim and Rick being fired. Now QB coach Broncos
Find another HC who has had 6 new OCs in 8 years of coaching. I don't care about your excuses you provide for the coaches leaving. It's a fact that he has had 6 new OCs in 8 years. You even said it, Zim took 3 years to decide that he would finally sit down with his QB and watch film, which was too late. He decided to get in front of the media first to ridicule his QB instead. What a leader! |
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mjollnir
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Post by mjollnir on Mar 1, 2022 10:34:17 GMT -6
To be fair - most of these OC's left for HC jobs (or were old and retired). Some rumors there was friction when Norv resigned but only one Zim "fired" was DeFilippo. But you make it sound like Zim was hiring and firing left and right. Ironically to your point, the talk all last year was Zimmer and Cousins were watching film together this season for first time -- so as far as we know we maybe did accept KC at the end (but the writing was on the wall for Zimm when they didn't make playoffs).
Norv Turner 2014-2016 - resigned (possible drama at end) - couple years later was OC for Panthers until quitting for good (2018-2019)
Pat Shurmur - 2017 - Left to be Giants HC
John DeFilippo - 2018 - fired - later Jags OC in 2019, then Bears QB coach 2020-2021
Kevin Stefanski - 2019 - left to be Browns HC (2020-present)
Gary Kubiak - 2020 - retired (and gave job to his kid)
Klint Kubiak - 2021 - gone with Zim and Rick being fired. Now QB coach Broncos
Find another HC who has had 6 new OCs in 8 years of coaching. I don't care about your excuses you provide for the coaches leaving. It's a fact that he has had 6 new OCs in 8 years. You even said it, Zim took 3 years to decide that he would finally sit down with his QB and watch film, which was too late. He decided to get in front of the media first to ridicule his QB instead. What a leader! John Har$baugh had 7 in 14 years take away Cam Cameron 5 years and he had 6 in 9 years (Kubiak and Dennison were co coordinators). Greg Roman Roman is the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens since the 2019 season, a total of three years. Roman's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 33-16-0, making him the second-most successful offensive coordinator in Baltimore Ravens history. The team made it to the playoffs two times (2019-2020) and had a 1-2 record under Coach Roman in playoff games. Marty Mornhinweg Mornhinweg was the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens in the 2017-2018 seasons, a total of two years. Marc Trestman Trestman was the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens in the 2015-2016 seasons, a total of two years. Trestman's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 13-19-0, making him the second-least successful offensive coordinator in Baltimore Ravens history. Rick Dennison Dennison was the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens in the 2014 season. Dennison's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 10-6-0, making him the third-most successful offensive coordinator in Baltimore Ravens history. The team made it to the playoffs one time (2014) and had a 1-1 record under Coach Dennison in playoff games. Gary Kubiak Kubiak was the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens in the 2014 season. Kubiak's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 10-6-0, making him the third-most successful offensive coordinator in Baltimore Ravens history. The team made it to the playoffs one time (2014) and had a 1-1 record under Coach Kubiak in playoff games. Jim Caldwell Caldwell was the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens in the 2013 season. Cam Cameron Cameron was the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens in the 2008-2012 seasons, a total of five years. Cameron's record as the team's offensive coordinator was 54-26-0, making him the most successful offensive coordinator in Baltimore Ravens history. The team made it to the playoffs five times (2008-2012) and had a 9-4 record under Coach Cameron in playoff games. In 2012, the Baltimore Ravens faced off against the San Francisco 49ers in Super Bowl XLVII and the Ravens, under the direction of head coach John Deceased Stallion, won 34-31. |
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Post by iceratz16 on Mar 1, 2022 10:50:34 GMT -6
Find another HC who has had 6 new OCs in 8 years of coaching. I don't care about your excuses you provide for the coaches leaving. It's a fact that he has had 6 new OCs in 8 years. You even said it, Zim took 3 years to decide that he would finally sit down with his QB and watch film, which was too late. He decided to get in front of the media first to ridicule his QB instead. What a leader! John Har$baugh had 7 in 14 years take away Cam Cameron 5 years and he had 6 in 9 years (Kubiak and Dennison were co coordinators). Good find, but why would you take away Cameron's 5 years?...that's preposterous. So he had 6 OCs in 14 years (Kubiak and Dennison were co-OCs, they would count as 1). Zim had the same total of 6 OCs in just 8 years. That's still a big difference. |
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legion11
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Post by legion11 on Mar 1, 2022 10:58:51 GMT -6
How about if Cousins didn't have so many 3 and outs and consistently put the defense back out on the field? Β Both sides of the ball need to help each other out, there were many games that are defense was whipped, cause they just were not getting any rest in between series. Β Whenever we got bad Kirk the defense really suffered. Β I think stopping one scoring drive every 8 quarter is not a big ask of nfl defense. How many one score games did we lose. I am in the zim lost it camp so I put the blame on weak defense. The stats say zims d really sucked the last two years. Both of these things can be true at the same time. The defense was dogshit all year, especially at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarters, and cost us several wins. Cousins "lead" us to a middle of the road 14th ranked scoring offense, but we were ranked 26th in the league at 3rd down conversions, suggesting a lot of 3 and outs and added pressure on our already bad defense. Guys, we just weren't a good team. It's not like one missing piece was going to complete the Superbowl puzzle. We were what our record said we were - a .500ish club that can beat the bottom feeders and lose to the true contenders. |
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Post by VikingBerserker on Mar 1, 2022 11:15:04 GMT -6
To be fair - most of these OC's left for HC jobs (or were old and retired). Some rumors there was friction when Norv resigned but only one Zim "fired" was DeFilippo. But you make it sound like Zim was hiring and firing left and right. Ironically to your point, the talk all last year was Zimmer and Cousins were watching film together this season for first time -- so as far as we know we maybe did accept KC at the end (but the writing was on the wall for Zimm when they didn't make playoffs).
Norv Turner 2014-2016 - resigned (possible drama at end) - couple years later was OC for Panthers until quitting for good (2018-2019)
Pat Shurmur - 2017 - Left to be Giants HC
John DeFilippo - 2018 - fired - later Jags OC in 2019, then Bears QB coach 2020-2021
Kevin Stefanski - 2019 - left to be Browns HC (2020-present)
Gary Kubiak - 2020 - retired (and gave job to his kid)
Klint Kubiak - 2021 - gone with Zim and Rick being fired. Now QB coach Broncos
Find another HC who has had 6 new OCs in 8 years of coaching. I don't care about your excuses you provide for the coaches leaving. It's a fact that he has had 6 new OCs in 8 years. You even said it, Zim took 3 years to decide that he would finally sit down with his QB and watch film, which was too late. He decided to get in front of the media first to ridicule his QB instead. What a leader!
I didn't claim the Vikings didn't have 6 OCs in 8 years. I didn't make excuses for them. I just stated the reason why they left.
As another example of a lot of turnover at OC - 49ers in the 2000's (to be fair this also spans a couple HCs too). But Greg Knapp was there in 2003, then Ted Tollner (2004), Mike McCarthy (2005), Norv Turner (2006), Jim Hostler (2007), Mike Martz (2008) and Jimmy Raye (2009-2010). That list has a lot of fired or turnover but also McCarthy and Norv left to become HCs. Weirdly they became HCs even though their 49ers teams weren't good.
I never defended Zim in anything I said either. IMO, he was a good DC pretending to be HC. That worked fine when they were winning, but when they started to lose and miss playoffs it backfired as expected. The Wilfs were smart to clean house.
I fully expect the Vikings and KOC to stick with KC for one more year and decide next year what to do about KC. In large part because there's no reasonable "plan b"
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mjollnir
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Post by mjollnir on Mar 1, 2022 12:51:13 GMT -6
John Har$baugh had 7 in 14 years take away Cam Cameron 5 years and he had 6 in 9 years (Kubiak and Dennison were co coordinators). Good find, but why would you take away Cameron's 5 years?...that's preposterous. So he had 6 OCs in 14 years (Kubiak and Dennison were co-OCs, they would count as 1). Zim had the same total of 6 OCs in just 8 years. That's still a big difference. Basically after Cameron he mirrored your point. I will concede Dennison/Kubiak |
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mg415
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Post by mg415 on Mar 1, 2022 17:29:09 GMT -6
I think stopping one scoring drive every 8 quarter is not a big ask of nfl defense. How many one score games did we lose. I am in the zim lost it camp so I put the blame on weak defense. The stats say zims d really sucked the last two years. Both of these things can be true at the same time. The defense was dogshit all year, especially at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarters, and cost us several wins. Cousins "lead" us to a middle of the road 14th ranked scoring offense, but we were ranked 26th in the league at 3rd down conversions, suggesting a lot of 3 and outs and added pressure on our already bad defense. Guys, we just weren't a good team. It's not like one missing piece was going to complete the Superbowl puzzle. We were what our record said we were - a .500ish club that can beat the bottom feeders and lose to the true contenders. I was not clear. I thought the weakest link in last years team was defense. A slightly better performing d would have given us one or two more wins. That would still not make us a playoff team. I agree with your statement. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 1, 2022 17:32:00 GMT -6
Both of these things can be true at the same time. The defense was dogshit all year, especially at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarters, and cost us several wins. Cousins "lead" us to a middle of the road 14th ranked scoring offense, but we were ranked 26th in the league at 3rd down conversions, suggesting a lot of 3 and outs and added pressure on our already bad defense. Guys, we just weren't a good team. It's not like one missing piece was going to complete the Superbowl puzzle. We were what our record said we were - a .500ish club that can beat the bottom feeders and lose to the true contenders. I was not clear. I thought the weakest link in last years team was defense. A slightly better performing d would have given us one or two more wins. That would still not make us a playoff team. I agree with your statement. Actually 1 NFC opponent win would have got the team in the playoffs last year. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 1, 2022 17:33:07 GMT -6
I was not clear. I thought the weakest link in last years team was defense. A slightly better performing d would have given us one or two more wins. That would still not make us a playoff team. I agree with your statement. Actually 1 NFC opponent win would have got the team in the playoffs last year. Actually we might have had tie breakers for any win on second thought to lead to playoff appearance. |
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bjdjfr
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Post by bjdjfr on Mar 1, 2022 20:47:36 GMT -6
I can't seem to find where we ranked in 3 and outs but we ranked 26th in 3rd down %. I would rather just bite the bullet this year and start the rebuild next year than keep Cousins and stay in cap mess.
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zenzabar
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Post by zenzabar on Mar 1, 2022 22:38:55 GMT -6
rick was a lot worse than i gave him credit for.... more this stuff comes out the more animosity for what he did to this team the last few years
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 1, 2022 23:44:18 GMT -6
rick was a lot worse than i gave him credit for.... more this stuff comes out the more animosity for what he did to this team the last few years he did what the Wilfs wanted and I hope they do not tie our new GM's hands by forcing him to go as all in for 22' as he can. P.S. 23' is pretty wide open for change if too much 22' cap is not moved into 23' to mess it up. I actually think the cap was handled about as well as it could have been to push in 21' and not mortgage the future. |
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