Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 10, 2021 20:50:43 GMT -6
I guess I'm in the minority here, but Riley will be missed. That is why they tried to renegotiate his contract. Sadly I think we are in for another long season. I agree if the plan is to go in-house with offensive line. My fear is that Udoh is going to go the way of Samia last season. Ezra might be the answer at LT, but then we have absolutely no answer on the interior. Udoh has actually played competently on the field and has worked himself higher on depth chart then Samia. Not to say he will/would/can succeed, but Udoh is about as opposite of Samia as you can be. I actually have fears that Cleveland could go Samia more then Udoh. Just food for thought. |
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 10, 2021 21:45:11 GMT -6
Getting Rid or Reiff may or may not come at a slight expense play wise at LT, but it frees up money for us to sign an actual G so it's addition by subtraction. So yes, I think it was actually an outstanding move. Furthermore restructuring Reiff (who is only slightly above average) at 32 and tying us into more years of Mediocrity at a heavy cost is not a wise move. It just compounds the problem we had going into this year (Too many players receiving premium incomes but only producing middle of the road production). I have no problem with paying Hunter 17+ million dollars...the guy is a difference maker. I have a big problem locking myself into Reiff at 32 and paying him premium money to be average and likely to decline. And yes. I think a OL of: O'Neil, FA, Bradbury, Cleveland, Udoh would be a far superior OL to anything we rolled out last year. I left Cleveland at RG because moving him to LT means we need to find 2 G's instead of just 1. If the plan is to move Cleveland to LT then I think we will sign a G in FA AND draft a Guard in Round 1 or 2. It doesnt free up enough money for any free agent worth a shit. They may have about enough money for their draft picks, now where is the rest coming from? This is likely to be a very different FA season. I agree...we aren't likely to have the cash to sign a Pro Bowl Caliber FA because we will have to sign a few players. The elite names will still command elite money. But the guys just below them.....that is where you will find your value is going to come. Normally FA consist or players have some sort of flaw. Maybe they are a pain in the ass, maybe they are injury prone, maybe they only had one great year and the team doesn't believe its repeatable, maybe they have gotten to an age where players tend to start to go downhill....no matter how you shake it out...in a normal year FA's usually have issues. Sometimes it is simply a money constraint...but more often than not FA's (even the big names) typically are guys the existing team just isn't comfortable committing to. This time around there are going to be a lot of quality players who become FA's only because of cap constraints only. Had the cap not gotten reduced there is no way the current team would have parted ways. The pool of quality FA is going to be much higher than normal and demand lower than normal as most teams will be severely limited in cap space. So even if you take out a Thuney....you will have plenty of very talented players available who are going to have to accept a price far below their normal going rate if they want a job in 2021. We won't have to break the bank in FA to upgrade a position or 2. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 10, 2021 21:52:23 GMT -6
It doesnt free up enough money for any free agent worth a shit. They may have about enough money for their draft picks, now where is the rest coming from? This is likely to be a very different FA season. I agree...we aren't likely to have the cash to sign a Pro Bowl Caliber FA because we will have to sign a few players. The elite names will still command elite money. But the guys just below them.....that is where you will find your value is going to come. Normally FA consist or players have some sort of flaw. Maybe they are a pain in the ass, maybe they are injury prone, maybe they only had one great year and the team doesn't believe its repeatable, maybe they have gotten to an age where players tend to start to go downhill....no matter how you shake it out...in a normal year FA's usually have issues. Sometimes it is simply a money constraint...but more often than not FA's (even the big names) typically are guys the existing team just isn't comfortable committing to. This time around there are going to be a lot of quality players who become FA's only because of cap constraints only. Had the cap not gotten reduced there is no way the current team would have parted ways. The pool of quality FA is going to be much higher than normal and demand lower than normal as most teams will be severely limited in cap space. So even if you take out a Thuney....you will have plenty of very talented players available who are going to have to accept a price far below their normal going rate if they want a job in 2021. We won't have to break the bank in FA to upgrade a position or 2. I am thinking some one like a Zietler for below market and low 2021 cap hit. Say like 3/24 with 5 mil 1st year cap and incentives that could raise his pay up into 9-10 mil per year range. If the plan is to go with Cleveland at LT I think they can actually get 2 starting G's for less then Reiff cost. 2 good G's at around what his cap hit was. |
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Post by maxsizzle on Mar 10, 2021 22:42:59 GMT -6
I agree if the plan is to go in-house with offensive line. My fear is that Udoh is going to go the way of Samia last season. Ezra might be the answer at LT, but then we have absolutely no answer on the interior. Udoh has actually played competently on the field and has worked himself higher on depth chart then Samia. Not to say he will/would/can succeed, but Udoh is about as opposite of Samia as you can be. I actually have fears that Cleveland could go Samia more then Udoh. Just food for thought. Don't know how you can state Udoh played competently and passed up Dru . He was inactive most of all last year . In 2 years he has played 1 game. That being said I hope he can start for us . |
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 10, 2021 22:56:00 GMT -6
I agree if the plan is to go in-house with offensive line. My fear is that Udoh is going to go the way of Samia last season. Ezra might be the answer at LT, but then we have absolutely no answer on the interior. Udoh has actually played competently on the field and has worked himself higher on depth chart then Samia. Not to say he will/would/can succeed, but Udoh is about as opposite of Samia as you can be. I actually have fears that Cleveland could go Samia more then Udoh. Just food for thought. I don't know the number; but, I'm curious how many snaps Udoh got compared to Samia? |
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Post by bedrock62 on Mar 10, 2021 23:33:31 GMT -6
Anyone else wonder why the last two games with no playoff chance they still trotted the old offensive line out there, couldnt give Udoh some snaps or Hinton at guard because we hadnt seen enough of Dozier, myself i have confidence in Ezra for left tackle and it would make zero sense to move O'Niell, defenses don't employ a run stuffing end on the left side anymore, pass rushers on each side left and right tackle are equal aside from the blind side aspect, as far as going after Thuney, not sure it makes sense to sign the highest paid guard in history unless you feel we are win now squad and even then it would be tough for me to do unless he dominates like the kid in Indy which i dont think he does, a good solid guy like Zietler for half the ticket would be fine with me, this week will be interesting and telling to see what direction this organization is headed
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 11, 2021 0:07:07 GMT -6
My guess is Zimmer was more worried about Win/Loss and his Job then seeing what he had. We had already somewhat crapped the bed after controlling our own destiny. Probably figured if he lost the last 2 games he would be toast. Who knows with that guy. Personally, I'd have used it as a preview of what these guys were capable of and whether or not any issues that were glaring were fixable in the offseason or if they looked like Samia and need to throw in the towel.
As for Samia, don't think you'd find anyone in the organization that would tell you they were or are higher on Samia than Udoh. Udoh is being groomed as a T. He had 2 sound starting in front of him and Hill got the nod for most games because he can fill both Rt and Lt Tackle. Samia had to beat out Elflein....that's one step above beating out my 84 year old Mother for a starting job!
Having said all of this, what the team EVER saw in Dozier is beyond me.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 11, 2021 0:09:32 GMT -6
Udoh has actually played competently on the field and has worked himself higher on depth chart then Samia. Not to say he will/would/can succeed, but Udoh is about as opposite of Samia as you can be. I actually have fears that Cleveland could go Samia more then Udoh. Just food for thought. Don't know how you can state Udoh played competently and passed up Dru . He was inactive most of all last year . In 2 years he has played 1 game. That being said I hope he can start for us . Well considering our tackles only missed 1 game collectively and the replacement was needed at LT that is kind of a silly argument. In preseason Udoh got 1st team reps but is locked into 1 position RT. Are you trying to argue that Samia played better in his snaps then Udoh did in his snaps in 2019 vs Bears? They have groomed and developed the guy for 1 purpose. Samia maybe he can turn things around, but he was horrible and only played due to injury and was replaced by a rookie with no mini camps & short (no games) preseason. Udoh has played competently in preseason games in 2019 and Samia did not, and I should add Udoh got 2nd team looks in 2019 preseason even thought drafted 2 rounds later. I have reasonable evidence that Udoh can play RT in the NFL and I do not have that with Cleveland at LT, and Samia has show nothing even worthy of his roster spot since being drafted. If there had been a 1 game injury Hill probably would have been moved in, but if there had been a longer injury at OT last year I am actually certain Udoh would have been the guy they mixed in. That said Cleveland maybe a fully viable LT and have a whole offseason to work towards that. The question then is are you really standing your ground on Samia being a better player/prospect/developmental guy then Udoh? If you are then you are in a severe minority I would guess. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 11, 2021 0:11:51 GMT -6
Udoh has actually played competently on the field and has worked himself higher on depth chart then Samia. Not to say he will/would/can succeed, but Udoh is about as opposite of Samia as you can be. I actually have fears that Cleveland could go Samia more then Udoh. Just food for thought. I don't know the number; but, I'm curious how many snaps Udoh got compared to Samia? Ok I guess you and Max are both in the Samia>Udoh camp. This line of reasoning intrigues me as I doubted there were even 2 people on the board that felt this way at this point. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 11, 2021 0:21:22 GMT -6
My guess is Zimmer was more worried about Win/Loss and his Job then seeing what he had. We had already somewhat crapped the bed after controlling our own destiny. Probably figured if he lost the last 2 games he would be toast. Who knows with that guy. Personally, I'd have used it as a preview of what these guys were capable of and whether or not any issues that were glaring were fixable in the offseason or if they looked like Samia and need to throw in the towel. As for Samia, don't think you'd find anyone in the organization that would tell you they were or are higher on Samia than Udoh. Udoh is being groomed as a T. He had 2 sound starting in front of him and Hill got the nod for most games because he can fill both Rt and Lt Tackle. Samia had to beat out Elflein....that's one step above beating out my 84 year old Mother for a starting job! Having said all of this, what the team EVER saw in Dozier is beyond me. Dozier? Cheap veteran depth that can play 4 positions (maybe 5 as I think he was the emergency center also) and it was a disservice to him and the team to have him as a starter last year. Oddly best performance he had was playing LT in 2019 preseason. He was supposed to be a cheap veteran swiss army knife. Why the team didn't put Jones in who has actual starting experience is beyond me except maybe they did not want to put their #2 C at risk for injury. |
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legion11
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Post by legion11 on Mar 11, 2021 6:58:04 GMT -6
Well if we don't draft Slater and have to move Cleveland to OT, that leaves us with exactly zero guards on our roster. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 11, 2021 7:09:32 GMT -6
Another thing to add on why Reiff was not traded probably rests largely on his 5 mil RB that was due next week. No one would have taken him on his contract without an already negotiated deal in place.
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Post by frantheman10 on Mar 11, 2021 7:15:53 GMT -6
Well if we don't draft Slater and have to move Cleveland to OT, that leaves us with exactly zero guards on our roster. I agree. But this is a year where you can get two good vet guards for like 3 yr $20mm deals with a $5mm cap hit in 2021. You could basically take Reiff's cap savings and sign Gabe Jackson and James Carpenter. Or maybe a Kevin Sweitzer (sp) becomes available. He may cost a little more but there will be cost effective options at guard to bridge us to younger talent that we draft in 2021 and 2022. |
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Post by VikingBerserker on Mar 11, 2021 7:27:52 GMT -6
I wonder if this move was inspired after seeing a couple of cuts at OG that were made today... which means moving Cleveland to OT.
This might be the plan but the only thing that inspired this move is the salary cap hell the Vikes have found themselves in. Normal (non-COVID) salary cap, and Reiff would have been extended or at least kept until the end of his contract.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 11, 2021 8:00:12 GMT -6
I wonder if this move was inspired after seeing a couple of cuts at OG that were made today... which means moving Cleveland to OT.
This might be the plan but the only thing that inspired this move is the salary cap hell the Vikes have found themselves in. Normal (non-COVID) salary cap, and Reiff would have been extended or at least kept until the end of his contract.
Actually Reiff I expect was going to be addressed Covid or no Covid. I also think he felt disrespected last year. |
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