zenzabar
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Post by zenzabar on Mar 2, 2021 15:37:55 GMT -6
dont see anything smart about this....adam has been one of the hardest workers on this team and very productive
people treating this team like race horse farm...win a couple of accolades an sell the horse for money...go get a couple of mules an cry why we don't make play offs next year
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Post by vike4real on Mar 2, 2021 15:40:03 GMT -6
I think when itβs all said and done you could have a lot of vets moving on from this team similar to last year. Theyβre not a lot of big pay days left in their careers so they re trying to get them while they can. Cousins isnβt willing to renegotiate either because heβs already thinking about his next contract as well. Weβre not the Bucs or the chiefs so asking guys to take less to stay here wonβt happen especially when they went down that road last year.
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 2, 2021 16:41:15 GMT -6
IMO - the Vikings are no longer in cap hell... they are only up against the cap in 2021 and will see lots of space in 2022 and on. As for the roster, they have 4-5 real holes and 2-3 should be answered by the draft and 1 more in FA. The problem with trading away a WR is that they have nobody behind AT & JJ. If they trade AT... JJ is going to suffer through double and triple teams and take a big step back. Past that, 1st and a 3rd is what they got for Diggs... I donβt think they could get anything more than a 2nd rounder for AT. A second round pick would be a non-starter IMO, especially since they are slotted at 27/32. Even their first would be barely better than a high 2nd. Given their low draft slot, the 1st and 3rd sounds about right to me. The Vikings would then have to use one of the 1st round picks on a WR. And although I'd hate to see AT go, it would give him a well-deserved shot at a title which he may not play long enough to get in Minnesota (sadly). A second round pick as a non starter is kind of my point. Itβs critical for the Vikings and JJ to have 2 quality WRβs and I donβt think the Ravens would trade a 1st for Theilen since they couldnβt agree on his value in September during Ngakoue trade talks. The Bills traded the 22nd and a 3rd round pick for a 26 year old Diggs. I donβt think any GM would find nearly the same value for a 30 year old WR. |
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 2, 2021 16:46:00 GMT -6
Theilen has been a Viking cornerstone for the past 5 years who was born in MN, went to school in MN, made the team as a walk-on, became an All-Pro and is one of the top 2-3 fan favorites on this roster.
The front office and team would suffer a massive PR hit if they traded him.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 2, 2021 23:29:33 GMT -6
I love Thielan but letβs look at this in the real world and not Purple fantasy land. AT is a 32 yr old WR who is a $13.5mm cap hit in 2021 and $14.5mm in 2022. If you believe that the Vikings are a SB contender then you keep AT for a run. But if you live in the real world and see that this team has too many holes and is in cap hell then you listen to offers. The Vikings should be thinking about who do I want on this team in 2023 when I can get out from under Cousins contract. Hunter is looking for a $27mm per. OβNeill will need an extension. Probably need to renegotiate Kendricks. Adam will not be part of a SB run in 2023 or 2024. It kills me to say it because Iβm not a young guy but Rick has Fβed this team for years. I wouldnβt give AT away. I would tell the Ravens that I want their 2021 1st rder and a 2022 3rd that becomes a 2nd if Adam gets a 1000 yards. IMO - the Vikings are no longer in cap hell... they are only up against the cap in 2021 and will see lots of space in 2022 and on. As for the roster, they have 4-5 real holes and 2-3 should be answered by the draft and 1 more in FA. The problem with trading away a WR is that they have nobody behind AT & JJ. If they trade AT... JJ is going to suffer through double and triple teams and take a big step back. Past that, 1st and a 3rd is what they got for Diggs... I donβt think they could get anything more than a 2nd rounder for AT. They will see space in 2023 but not 2022. Things will still be tight with Kirk's contract. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 2, 2021 23:32:00 GMT -6
IMO - the Vikings are no longer in cap hell... they are only up against the cap in 2021 and will see lots of space in 2022 and on. As for the roster, they have 4-5 real holes and 2-3 should be answered by the draft and 1 more in FA. The problem with trading away a WR is that they have nobody behind AT & JJ. If they trade AT... JJ is going to suffer through double and triple teams and take a big step back. Past that, 1st and a 3rd is what they got for Diggs... I donβt think they could get anything more than a 2nd rounder for AT. A second round pick would be a non-starter IMO, especially since they are slotted at 27/32. Even their first would be barely better than a high 2nd. Given their low draft slot, the 1st and 3rd sounds about right to me. The Vikings would then have to use one of the 1st round picks on a WR. And although I'd hate to see AT go, it would give him a well-deserved shot at a title which he may not play long enough to get in Minnesota (sadly). There are only 3 1st round grade WR's and they all might go in first 10-12 picks and you cant rely on a rookie WR to start regardless of draft position. There is huge drop off after Waddle in this class. |
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comet52
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Post by comet52 on Mar 3, 2021 2:07:43 GMT -6
( I thought it was obvious in the subject line that is the a garbage rumor)  Is there some other kind? JJ Watt to Green Bay, no, Pittsburgh, no Chicago, no, a contender. Ok Arizona said no one ever. |
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 3, 2021 3:09:52 GMT -6
IMO - the Vikings are no longer in cap hell... they are only up against the cap in 2021 and will see lots of space in 2022 and on. As for the roster, they have 4-5 real holes and 2-3 should be answered by the draft and 1 more in FA. The problem with trading away a WR is that they have nobody behind AT & JJ. If they trade AT... JJ is going to suffer through double and triple teams and take a big step back. Past that, 1st and a 3rd is what they got for Diggs... I donβt think they could get anything more than a 2nd rounder for AT. They will see space in 2023 but not 2022. Things will still be tight with Kirk's contract. 10 - 15 million extra on Cousins contract isnβt going to put them in βcap hellβ... there are plenty of good/great contracts that offset that one. Between a couple of extensions and a couple of additional cuts... they will have the space they need to make the moves they want to make |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 3, 2021 6:24:57 GMT -6
They will see space in 2023 but not 2022. Things will still be tight with Kirk's contract. 10 - 15 million extra on Cousins contract isnβt going to put them in βcap hellβ... there are plenty of good/great contracts that offset that one. Between a couple of extensions and a couple of additional cuts... they will have the space they need to make the moves they want to make They will start creating holes that need to be filled with the cuts to create room. O'Neill & Hunter will most likely be getting larger contracts moving forward and if Reiff is kept it will be on an extension. If Reiff is not kept they will spend something on an OL in FA. Projecting 2022 cap is impossible at this point between unknown stadium revenue and new MNF contract tugging different directions. Have 2 drafts worth of players to add into 2022 cap number. Sundry lower cost in house moves. Vikings will not have substantial cap room until 2023. P.S. they could burn it down this year (unlikely) and embrace a bunch of room in 2022 if they really want to. |
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purpleberserker
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Post by purpleberserker on Mar 3, 2021 9:18:11 GMT -6
A second round pick would be a non-starter IMO, especially since they are slotted at 27/32. Even their first would be barely better than a high 2nd. Given their low draft slot, the 1st and 3rd sounds about right to me. The Vikings would then have to use one of the 1st round picks on a WR. And although I'd hate to see AT go, it would give him a well-deserved shot at a title which he may not play long enough to get in Minnesota (sadly). There are only 3 1st round grade WR's and they all might go in first 10-12 picks and you cant rely on a rookie WR to start regardless of draft position. There is huge drop off after Waddle in this class. I agree that Chase, Smith and Waddle are the top 3 in this class and the only certain 1st round WR in this group. But it's possible that one of them could fall to 14. I actually saw one mock a week or two ago that had the Vikings taking Smith at #14 without the benefit of and additional 1st from a trade. But if all of them were drafted in the top 13 picks, Kadarius Toney would be an option later in the 1st. He'd be a very versatile option as he can play outside, slot, return punts and even line up in the backfield. No rookie is going to replace AT day 1, that is certain. I'm just saying that if such a trade were to happen, they would have to get one of these top 4 receivers in return, even if it takes them some time to get up to speed. It's an interesting discussion, but I highly doubt such a trade will happen anyway. |
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 3, 2021 11:16:31 GMT -6
10 - 15 million extra on Cousins contract isnβt going to put them in βcap hellβ... there are plenty of good/great contracts that offset that one. Between a couple of extensions and a couple of additional cuts... they will have the space they need to make the moves they want to make They will start creating holes that need to be filled with the cuts to create room. O'Neill & Hunter will most likely be getting larger contracts moving forward and if Reiff is kept it will be on an extension. If Reiff is not kept they will spend something on an OL in FA. Projecting 2022 cap is impossible at this point between unknown stadium revenue and new MNF contract tugging different directions. Have 2 drafts worth of players to add into 2022 cap number. Sundry lower cost in house moves. Vikings will not have substantial cap room until 2023. P.S. they could burn it down this year (unlikely) and embrace a bunch of room in 2022 if they really want to. I know you are the self appointed board guru on all things salary cap... instead of telling everyone they are wrong, every time it is mentioned, you could leave a little room for alternate opinions. If itβs impossible to know what the cap will be in 2022... how can we say they will be against it in 2022? Personally, I think the NFL will also figure out a way to monetize legalized gambling and streaming services on top of current revenue generators. Current projections have the Vikings at 48 million in cap space with only a few key players to address long-term. Likely or possible cuts between now and March 2022... - Colquit in 2021 - Bailey in 2021 - Stephen in 2021 - Barr in 2022 - Reiff... I donβt have a clue what happens there That gives them a pretty hearty war chest of 71 million ( plus any rollover) to resign OβNeil & Conklin, give Hunter a 10 million dollar raise and resign Smith. Also, 2023 they have some 150 million in cap space where they could kick a little cap down the road. As far as the holes go... that is what the draft is for. They will have 2 drafts worth of picks to replace underwhelming players like Holmes and Ifeadi at the bargain price of about 6 million per draft class. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 3, 2021 12:08:42 GMT -6
They will start creating holes that need to be filled with the cuts to create room. O'Neill & Hunter will most likely be getting larger contracts moving forward and if Reiff is kept it will be on an extension. If Reiff is not kept they will spend something on an OL in FA. Projecting 2022 cap is impossible at this point between unknown stadium revenue and new MNF contract tugging different directions. Have 2 drafts worth of players to add into 2022 cap number. Sundry lower cost in house moves. Vikings will not have substantial cap room until 2023. P.S. they could burn it down this year (unlikely) and embrace a bunch of room in 2022 if they really want to. I know you are the self appointed board guru on all things salary cap... instead of telling everyone they are wrong, every time it is mentioned, you could leave a little room for alternate opinions. If itβs impossible to know what the cap will be in 2022... how can we say they will be against it in 2022? Personally, I think the NFL will also figure out a way to monetize legalized gambling and streaming services on top of current revenue generators. Current projections have the Vikings at 48 million in cap space with only a few key players to address long-term. Likely or possible cuts between now and March 2022... - Colquit in 2021 - Bailey in 2021 - Stephen in 2021 - Barr in 2022 - Reiff... I donβt have a clue what happens there That gives them a pretty hearty war chest of 71 million ( plus any rollover) to resign OβNeil & Conklin, give Hunter a 10 million dollar raise and resign Smith. Also, 2023 they have some 150 million in cap space where they could kick a little cap down the road. As far as the holes go... that is what the draft is for. They will have 2 drafts worth of picks to replace underwhelming players like Holmes and Ifeadi at the bargain price of about 6 million per draft class. Current salary expenditures for next year are 176 mil with no guarantee of cap being higher then this years. Bailey and Colquitt have about 8 mil in cap charge next year. Rudolph will most likeley be designated post june 1st which will add 2 mil to next year in dead cap. Shamar has no contract next year so whether he is cut or not doesn't effect 2022. 2021 draft class will likely cost about 8 mil next year. Barr and Reiff still have no idea, and Reiff has no effect currently on 2022. Barr if cut would be counted as post June 1st leaving dead cap. Hunter & O'Neill likely to get new contracts. New FA's to sign. Your 48 mil in cap space would be with a projected 225 mil cap next year and that would mean a completely unaffected 2022 for stadium revenue (with projected revenue growth at rate equal to before covid from 2019and 3 billion per year MNF contract and sounds like negotiations are working around 2.6 billion that difference alone would drop projected cap by around 6.5 mil per team. You need to assume there will be over 200 mil in cap charges on team going into 2022 and no idea at this point where cap will be for 2022. You are assuming no additions to salary cap next year from this year with those numbers. Are you using OTC? 2 things with OTC is they do not always have a good grasp of cap limits and they almost always are a few mil off on team cap projections. They are probably still working off cap projections for 2022 from 2015 from growth rates from prior years. Best case scenario I can see is Vikings maybe having 5-10 mil in open cap next year at this time. Also Forgot Harry is not under contract for next year and they are working on an extension now so that is another fairly high dollar contract. Vikings will be adding tens of millions to next years cap just over the next few months in FA and draft period. Also everything has been wonky this year as we are at the end of CBA period and we have no idea of where things will be in 2023 (I do expect a lot of cap room in 2023). 2022 will also have few cap cut candidates. |
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 3, 2021 12:11:54 GMT -6
I know you are the self appointed board guru on all things salary cap... instead of telling everyone they are wrong, every time it is mentioned, you could leave a little room for alternate opinions. If itβs impossible to know what the cap will be in 2022... how can we say they will be against it in 2022? Personally, I think the NFL will also figure out a way to monetize legalized gambling and streaming services on top of current revenue generators. Current projections have the Vikings at 48 million in cap space with only a few key players to address long-term. Likely or possible cuts between now and March 2022... - Colquit in 2021 - Bailey in 2021 - Stephen in 2021 - Barr in 2022 - Reiff... I donβt have a clue what happens there That gives them a pretty hearty war chest of 71 million ( plus any rollover) to resign OβNeil & Conklin, give Hunter a 10 million dollar raise and resign Smith. Also, 2023 they have some 150 million in cap space where they could kick a little cap down the road. As far as the holes go... that is what the draft is for. They will have 2 drafts worth of picks to replace underwhelming players like Holmes and Ifeadi at the bargain price of about 6 million per draft class. Current salary expenditures for next year are 176 mil with no guarantee of cap being higher then this years. Bailey and Colquitt have about 8 mil in cap charge next year. Rudolph will most likeley be designated post june 1st which will add 2 mil to next year in dead cap. Shamar has no contract next year so whether he is cut or not doesn't effect 2022. 2021 draft class will likely cost about 8 mil next year. Barr and Reiff still have no idea, and Reiff has no effect currently on 2022. Barr if cut would be counted as post June 1st leaving dead cap. Hunter & O'Neill likely to get new contracts. New FA's to sign. Your 48 mil in cap space would be with a projected 225 mil cap next year and that would mean a completely unaffected 2022 for stadium revenue (with projected revenue growth at rate equal to before covid from 2019and 3 billion per year MNF contract and sounds like negotiations are working around 2.6 billion that difference alone would drop projected cap by around 6.5 mil per team. You need to assume there will be over 200 mil in cap charges on team going into 2022 and no idea at this point where cap will be for 2022. You are assuming no additions to salary cap next year from this year with those numbers. Are you using OTC? 2 things with OTC is they do not always have a good grasp of cap limits and they almost always are a few mil off on team cap projections. They are probably still working off cap projections for 2022 from 2015 from growth rates from prior years. Best case scenario I can see is Vikings maybe having 5-10 mil in open cap next year at this time. Also Forgot Harry is not under contract for next year and they are working on an extension now so that is another fairly high dollar contract. Vikings will be adding tens of millions to next years cap just over the next few months in FA and draft period. Also everything has been wonky this year as we are at the end of CBA period and we have no idea of where things will be in 2023 (I do expect a lot of cap room in 2023). 2022 will also have few cap cut candidates. P.S. 2 drafts worth of guys will be 15 mil or so of cap to add for next years time by opening day of 2022 season. They will not fill every hole on the team with draft as there will be some FA's coming in. |
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 3, 2021 12:45:30 GMT -6
Way to get in the last 2 comments on yet another cap conversation... itβs no longer worth discussing it on this board because no dissenting opinions are allowed and get mired in minutiae.
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