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Post by 2012mom on Mar 29, 2023 8:01:30 GMT -6
Why is this even a discussion? Lamar had one terrific season, but at this point, I wouldn't trade him even up for Cousins, much less give up draft picks.
Jackson has never played a complete season. Every one of his stats has dropped since that one great season.
If you compare Jackson vs Cousins over the past 4 years (ignore 2018, since Jackson only started part of the season)
Availability Jackson 54 games, Cousins 10 more
Completion percentage Jackson 64.4, Cousins 67.1
Yards passing Jackson 11008 (204/gm), Cousins 16636 (260/gm)
TDs passing Jackson 95 (1.75/gm), Cousins 123 (1.92/gm)
GWDs Jackson 9, Cousins 16
INTs Jackson 35 (0.65/gm), Cousins 40 (0.63/gm)
TDs rushing Jackson 19, Cousins 5 (note that over the past two seasons, it's Jackson 4, Cousins 3)
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Post by page88 on Mar 29, 2023 8:07:07 GMT -6
Why is this even a discussion? Lamar had one terrific season, but at this point, I wouldn't trade him even up for Cousins, much less give up draft picks. Jackson has never played a complete season. Every one of his stats has dropped since that one great season. If you compare Jackson vs Cousins over the past 4 years (ignore 2018, since Jackson only started part of the season) Availability Jackson 54 games, Cousins 10 more Completion percentage Jackson 64.4, Cousins 67.1 Yards passing Jackson 11008 (204/gm), Cousins 16636 (260/gm) TDs passing Jackson 95 (1.75/gm), Cousins 123 (1.92/gm) GWDs Jackson 9, Cousins 16 INTs Jackson 35 (0.65/gm), Cousins 40 (0.63/gm) TDs rushing Jackson 19, Cousins 5 (note that over the past two seasons, it's Jackson 4, Cousins 3) Two Factors to consider: - Cousins is 35 years old and Jackson is 26
- Cousins had JJ and Theilen to throw to.......quick, name Jacksons' receivers
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 10:42:29 GMT -6
- Cousins had JJ and Theilen to throw to.......quick, name Jacksons' receivers
Is that because Baltimore has bad receivers, or because Baltimore's receivers had Lamar Jackson throwing to them? Last year in the NFL there were 24 QBs who threw the ball more often than Lamar Jackson did, and except for Derek Carr, Russell Wilson, and Baker Mayfield, all 24 of them also had a significantly better completion % than did Lamar Jackson.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 10:47:12 GMT -6
- Cousins is 35 years old and Jackson is 26
An interesting thing about that is that traditional QBs have often played into their late 30s, but Lamar Jackson is more like a hybrid QB-RB, and RBs generally age out relatively early. Insofar as Lamar's success is built on his running ability, what is his situation going to look like when he is 30, has lost a step (perhaps more) as a runner and increasingly has to be more of a traditional passer? That game might decline quickly.
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avguy
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Post by avguy on Mar 29, 2023 13:02:14 GMT -6
Neat segment on Cowherd just saw on Fox - Lamar Or Lamarket ? He & J Mac went thru comparing Jackson for this coming season vs a whole lot of the current guys in the season. It was no question on Lamar vs Kirk.
For the record, it’s one of my few sports shows I’m loyal to. I’m about his age, have connections to Fox, and he just sees the world pretty close to me as a mostly West coast sports fan.
FTR - Lamar over A Rodg, but not over Stafford, Wilson, or Goff! Arguments were very solid. Again, Vikes owners are not gonna do this break the bank. The Ravens have had Jackson under his 1st contract and built up their roster as you can. They’re now in that tilt of his next contract as would any other team - roster hell can follow.
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Post by 2012mom on Mar 29, 2023 13:24:46 GMT -6
Why is this even a discussion? Lamar had one terrific season, but at this point, I wouldn't trade him even up for Cousins, much less give up draft picks. Jackson has never played a complete season. Every one of his stats has dropped since that one great season. If you compare Jackson vs Cousins over the past 4 years (ignore 2018, since Jackson only started part of the season) Availability Jackson 54 games, Cousins 10 more Completion percentage Jackson 64.4, Cousins 67.1 Yards passing Jackson 11008 (204/gm), Cousins 16636 (260/gm) TDs passing Jackson 95 (1.75/gm), Cousins 123 (1.92/gm) GWDs Jackson 9, Cousins 16 INTs Jackson 35 (0.65/gm), Cousins 40 (0.63/gm) TDs rushing Jackson 19, Cousins 5 (note that over the past two seasons, it's Jackson 4, Cousins 3) Two Factors to consider: - Cousins is 35 years old and Jackson is 26
- Cousins had JJ and Theilen to throw to.......quick, name Jacksons' receivers
Without looking it up, I would guess that Mark Andrews, TE, was their leading receiver last year. Ok, looking it up, Marquise Brown and Mark Andrews were either #1 or #2 in 2019-2021, with Willie Snead #3 in the first two years, and Bateman #3 in 2021. IOW, Jackson's drop in productivity happened even though he had the same to two receivers until last year. And yes, Mark Andrews was their leading receiver last year. Here are the more important numbers, IMO: Rushing attempts: 2018 147 2019 176 2020 159 2021 133 2022 112 Lamar's game is only special because of his legs, but just like RBs, he's not likely to last at a high level into his mid 30s. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kirk and Lamar be done in the league at nearly the same time.
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Post by purplepastor on Mar 29, 2023 14:31:25 GMT -6
Two Factors to consider: - Cousins is 35 years old and Jackson is 26
- Cousins had JJ and Theilen to throw to.......quick, name Jacksons' receivers
Without looking it up, I would guess that Mark Andrews, TE, was their leading receiver last year. Ok, looking it up, Marquise Brown and Mark Andrews were either #1 or #2 in 2019-2021, with Willie Snead #3 in the first two years, and Bateman #3 in 2021. IOW, Jackson's drop in productivity happened even though he had the same to two receivers until last year. And yes, Mark Andrews was their leading receiver last year. Here are the more important numbers, IMO: Rushing attempts: 2018 147 2019 176 2020 159 2021 133 2022 112 Lamar's game is only special because of his legs, but just like RBs, he's not likely to last at a high level into his mid 30s. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kirk and Lamar be done in the league at nearly the same time. Agreed except for that Lamar may be done sooner if he doesn't humble himself enough to play for a contract that is less than what he thinks it should be.
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tavike
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Post by tavike on Mar 30, 2023 12:01:53 GMT -6
Why is this even a discussion? Lamar had one terrific season, but at this point, I wouldn't trade him even up for Cousins, much less give up draft picks. Jackson has never played a complete season. Every one of his stats has dropped since that one great season. If you compare Jackson vs Cousins over the past 4 years (ignore 2018, since Jackson only started part of the season) Availability Jackson 54 games, Cousins 10 more Completion percentage Jackson 64.4, Cousins 67.1 Yards passing Jackson 11008 (204/gm), Cousins 16636 (260/gm) TDs passing Jackson 95 (1.75/gm), Cousins 123 (1.92/gm) GWDs Jackson 9, Cousins 16 INTs Jackson 35 (0.65/gm), Cousins 40 (0.63/gm) TDs rushing Jackson 19, Cousins 5 (note that over the past two seasons, it's Jackson 4, Cousins 3) To be fair, you really need to list rushing yards in there too.
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mgb8
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Post by mgb8 on Mar 30, 2023 12:14:17 GMT -6
There is a difference between a great passer who can run and a great runner who can pass, and I fear that Jackson is the latter category. I thought Hurts was, too, but he has developed as a passer… Jackson never really has.
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Post by thehustle on Mar 30, 2023 12:53:12 GMT -6
If I was a GM, I’d call Lamar, tell him how I think he could be great for our franchise, and that I think he really has a future in the league, and then offer him the vet minimum. I sincerely hope he holds out so long that he doesn’t even end up getting that much before his career is over. F*VK these athletes who think $125M guaranteed isn’t “worthy” of their value for simply running fast and throwing far. I can list 50 professions right off the top of my head that “regular” people do for society that have far more worth than Lamar or any other QB will ever possess. They’re turning down Powerball money at this point. Someone needs to rein in their unbelievably gargantuan egos.
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 30, 2023 12:55:52 GMT -6
If I was a GM, I’d call Lamar, tell him how I think he could be great for our franchise, and that I think he really has a future in the league, and then offer him the vet minimum. I sincerely hope he holds out so long that he doesn’t even end up getting that much before his career is over. F*VK these athletes who think $125M guaranteed isn’t “worthy” of their value for simply running fast and throwing far. I can list 50 professions right off the top of my head that “regular” people do for society that have far more worth than Lamar or any other QB will ever possess. They’re turning down Powerball money at this point. Someone needs to rein in their unbelievably gargantuan egos. SO owners deserve all the money? Stop comparing athletes to other professions it is apples and oranges.
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Post by thehustle on Mar 30, 2023 14:13:36 GMT -6
If I was a GM, I’d call Lamar, tell him how I think he could be great for our franchise, and that I think he really has a future in the league, and then offer him the vet minimum. I sincerely hope he holds out so long that he doesn’t even end up getting that much before his career is over. F*VK these athletes who think $125M guaranteed isn’t “worthy” of their value for simply running fast and throwing far. I can list 50 professions right off the top of my head that “regular” people do for society that have far more worth than Lamar or any other QB will ever possess. They’re turning down Powerball money at this point. Someone needs to rein in their unbelievably gargantuan egos. SO owners deserve all the money? Stop comparing athletes to other professions it is apples and oranges. Owners are called owners for a reason. Owners of companies paid a lot of money for (or worked extremely hard to build) the thing they own. They’re entitled to the profits generated by the thing they own. This is a simple principle that applies to any business, whether that’s your mom’s little bakery or an NFL owner’s football team. Rich-people-envy isn’t a viable argument for why a guy who doesn’t own any part of that team, isn’t entitled to any part of its profits, is -not- the best QB in the league, and has already been offered lottery money to do his job - whose total potential value would have put him squarely among the top 3 contracts in league HISTORY, with his guaranteed money putting him in the top ~6 - should expect or deserve even more than that. He was already offered more value than what’s justified by his career performance. His ego is in the way. He deserves to rot. He won’t, by the way. He’ll still end up likely with AT LEAST $100M over the next 2-3 years no matter what, which is honestly an absolute robbery.
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Post by purplepastor on Mar 30, 2023 15:17:17 GMT -6
If I was a GM, I’d call Lamar, tell him how I think he could be great for our franchise, and that I think he really has a future in the league, and then offer him the vet minimum. I sincerely hope he holds out so long that he doesn’t even end up getting that much before his career is over. F*VK these athletes who think $125M guaranteed isn’t “worthy” of their value for simply running fast and throwing far. I can list 50 professions right off the top of my head that “regular” people do for society that have far more worth than Lamar or any other QB will ever possess. They’re turning down Powerball money at this point. Someone needs to rein in their unbelievably gargantuan egos. QBs can use their platform to do some amazing things in their communities. Some even set up foundations or nonprofits to help people. However, Lamar will get what the market dictates, unless his ego is too large to accept the market price. Then he will be done until his ego humbles. Right now the market is saying non-exclusive franchise tag. He is a risk given his style of play and probability for injury. He doesn't like it, but he is also free to find a better deal. He is his own agent.
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Post by vikergirl on Apr 10, 2023 18:55:30 GMT -6
If I was a GM, I’d call Lamar, tell him how I think he could be great for our franchise, and that I think he really has a future in the league, and then offer him the vet minimum. I sincerely hope he holds out so long that he doesn’t even end up getting that much before his career is over. F*VK these athletes who think $125M guaranteed isn’t “worthy” of their value for simply running fast and throwing far. I can list 50 professions right off the top of my head that “regular” people do for society that have far more worth than Lamar or any other QB will ever possess. They’re turning down Powerball money at this point. Someone needs to rein in their unbelievably gargantuan egos. There is no reigning in these guys. Also why not get that bag if you can?
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