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Post by redbird87 on Mar 22, 2023 9:38:19 GMT -6
I believe we are currently under the cap with all the moves we've made thus far in the offseason. We'll still need to free up some space for rookies and I'm not sold we are done in FA yet....but we still have some moves we can make to create additional space through extensions and trades. I also know some on the board do not think Hunter will play under his current contract but let's assume he does or any restructure/extension is cap neutral in 23.
So were do we go from here. I know most have been under the assumption that Davenport was a direct replacement of Z or Hunter and he could well be, but are we wrong and do they plan to keep all 3? I can make a strong argument as to how and why this could well be the plan. For starters, Davenport is a very good run defender and that is Z's weakness. While there will obviously be rotations including Jones and others to keep people fresh .....could the base plan be to play Hunter and Davenport as OLB on running downs and bring Z in on passing downs while moving Hunter inside to DE. That would put all 3 on the field in passing situations and would be a real problem for opposing offenses especially if we run zero scheme where one of the 3 is likely to get a free run at the QB! Keeping all 3 would help to keep Z fresher as the season wears on due to his age and it provides some level of insurance in the event Z or Davenport fall victim to the injury bug again since both are prone. Just a thought.
BTW....has anyone noticed how unbalanced the position groups are getting right now?
We currently have 9 OLB's on roster We currently have 9 Int DL on roster We currently have 5 Safeties on the roster But we only have have 4 CBs And only 4 ILBs
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Post by frantheman10 on Mar 22, 2023 9:49:20 GMT -6
Your scenario is possible but Z is bitching about wanting out and Hunter still doesnβt have a new deal. I assume Davenport is happy as he just signed but I have trouble seeing a scenario where both Hunter and Z will be happy with their contracts and come back. I still think that direction of travel is a new deal for Hunter and a trade of Z but keeping Z as insurance until that is done.
Totally agree on the roster breakdown. I have no idea what the plan is at LB. I guess weβre ok at ILB with Hicks and Asamoaha. I thought we would have signed a mid tier LB in FA for depth and competition but apparently not. I guess weβll grab one in the middle rounds.
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Post by odinswrath on Mar 22, 2023 12:09:51 GMT -6
Your scenario is possible but Z is bitching about wanting out and Hunter still doesnβt have a new deal. I assume Davenport is happy as he just signed but I have trouble seeing a scenario where both Hunter and Z will be happy with their contracts and come back. I still think that direction of travel is a new deal for Hunter and a trade of Z but keeping Z as insurance until that is done. Totally agree on the roster breakdown. I have no idea what the plan is at LB. I guess weβre ok at ILB with Hicks and Asamoaha. I thought we would have signed a mid tier LB in FA for depth and competition but apparently not. I guess weβll grab one in the middle rounds. Long way to go yet. A lot will happen with the draft, undrafted FA's and probably some cheap free agents that missed out on the frenzy.
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avguy
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Post by avguy on Mar 22, 2023 13:15:28 GMT -6
I saw too many alignments last season where we had either 3 or all 4 of our OLB guys in and no bigs where they got totally gashed up the middle on runs. (Barkley!)
Thatβs why I am not good with the 9 + 9 mentioned above. All of the current IOL guys are really just Big Ends in most other 3-4 teams. They are all bad at stopping the run and none has a speed or moves package to get a quick QB in chase mode.
The edge guys are also poor vs the run and can only cover the rare FB or blocking TE on screens.
We need more powerful actual DTs and possibly covert a couple of those Edge OLBs into LB. Then, depending who stays among the big 3 OLBs, may need one hyper-athletic Edge later this draft.
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purple77
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Post by purple77 on Mar 22, 2023 14:04:17 GMT -6
Our biggest signing was hiring Flores. He should get the most out of the players, what ever our defensive roster looks like in Sept. That's the biggest Plus.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 22, 2023 16:46:54 GMT -6
I saw too many alignments last season where we had either 3 or all 4 of our OLB guys in and no bigs where they got totally gashed up the middle on runs. (Barkley!) Thatβs why I am not good with the 9 + 9 mentioned above. All of the current IOL guys are really just Big Ends in most other 3-4 teams. They are all bad at stopping the run and none has a speed or moves package to get a quick QB in chase mode. The edge guys are also poor vs the run and can only cover the rare FB or blocking TE on screens. We need more powerful actual DTs and possibly covert a couple of those Edge OLBs into LB. Then, depending who stays among the big 3 OLBs, may need one hyper-athletic Edge later this draft. Hunter is a top end edge setter. He has always been a well above average run defender so he can play the run on the edge. Phillips is the only good run defender of the interior guys and that was as a 4-3 1tech NT. Davenport as mentioned is an upgrade outside vs the run, Jones seems to be able to do it. Lowrey is solid vs the run as far as new DL guys.
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Post by rooscooter on Mar 22, 2023 21:26:10 GMT -6
I saw too many alignments last season where we had either 3 or all 4 of our OLB guys in and no bigs where they got totally gashed up the middle on runs. (Barkley!) Thatβs why I am not good with the 9 + 9 mentioned above. All of the current IOL guys are really just Big Ends in most other 3-4 teams. They are all bad at stopping the run and none has a speed or moves package to get a quick QB in chase mode. The edge guys are also poor vs the run and can only cover the rare FB or blocking TE on screens. We need more powerful actual DTs and possibly covert a couple of those Edge OLBs into LB. Then, depending who stays among the big 3 OLBs, may need one hyper-athletic Edge later this draft. Hunter is a top end edge setter. He has always been a well above average run defender so he can play the run on the edge. Phillips is the only good run defender of the interior guys and that was as a 4-3 1tech NT. Davenport as mentioned is an upgrade outside vs the run, Jones seems to be able to do it. Lowrey is solid vs the run as far as new DL guys. Are you Hunter's agent? Real question. He's not great against the run. They ran at him a lot and with success. He often was getting washed out on his side. He'd be part of the tackle but 6 yards downfield. He ran down some runners running to the opposite side from behind but often was pushed around when it went to his side. Good? maybe. Great? no... just stop. Our entire D-line wasn't good, isn't good and probably won't be good against the run until we get penetrating interior linemen in there. We have no one inside that demands a double team. Hunter's best play last year was when he was upright. He's just not able to disengage like he used to since the neck injury so any head start is key for him. That's the biggest difference I've seen in his game pre/post surgery. He also attacks more upright than he did before.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 22, 2023 22:26:53 GMT -6
Hunter is a top end edge setter. He has always been a well above average run defender so he can play the run on the edge. Phillips is the only good run defender of the interior guys and that was as a 4-3 1tech NT. Davenport as mentioned is an upgrade outside vs the run, Jones seems to be able to do it. Lowrey is solid vs the run as far as new DL guys. Are you Hunter's agent? Real question. He's not great against the run. They ran at him a lot and with success. He often was getting washed out on his side. He'd be part of the tackle but 6 yards downfield. He ran down some runners running to the opposite side from behind but often was pushed around when it went to his side. Good? maybe. Great? no... just stop. Our entire D-line wasn't good, isn't good and probably won't be good against the run until we get penetrating interior linemen in there. We have no one inside that demands a double team. Hunter's best play last year was when he was upright. He's just not able to disengage like he used to since the neck injury so any head start is key for him. That's the biggest difference I've seen in his game pre/post surgery. He also attacks more upright than he did before. You realize Hunter has always been a top run defender at his position right? It is one of the things that separates him from other DE/OLB players. By any metric he is and always has been one of the gold standards at his positions vs the run. You say things like you watch the games, but you obviously do not. Hunter is one of the main reasons teams this past year and often during his career run to the left side in a right side run dominant league. Maybe it was because the rest of the defense was falling apart you did not notice, but the last 8 games or so of the season he was playing some of his best football as a Viking.
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taz24
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Post by taz24 on Mar 22, 2023 22:32:53 GMT -6
Hunter had a terrific second half after transitioning well to a 3-4 and he has always been a very good run defender.
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2012mom
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Post by 2012mom on Mar 23, 2023 5:00:22 GMT -6
I think the safety group is small because it's the final roster guys plus one tryout/camp body.
The CB group I think signals a CB draft pick, or maybe a trade after the draft, butt it's a clear area of need.
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 23, 2023 12:22:45 GMT -6
I think the safety group is small because it's the final roster guys plus one tryout/camp body. The CB group I think signals a CB draft pick, or maybe a trade after the draft, butt it's a clear area of need. I just don't know how you go into a season with 1 guy with starter experience & 2 second year players (1 of which can't stay healthy) and a draft pic. I know we will play an unorthodox scheme on D, but I gotta believe we'll need a Nickel and at least one high quality CB still and I'm just scratching my head as to where it is going to come from. I'm not sure how you make it work, but I'd love to see us get Rock Ya-Sin. That would make me feel a lot better about things.
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Vikeroo
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Post by Vikeroo on Mar 23, 2023 12:48:01 GMT -6
I think the safety group is small because it's the final roster guys plus one tryout/camp body. The CB group I think signals a CB draft pick, or maybe a trade after the draft, butt it's a clear area of need. They have Barnes & Gowan still on the roster I believe at CB so they have 3 there plus 2 bodies, but yeah you expect them to have 7-10 for the 90 man.
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Post by redbird87 on Mar 23, 2023 16:13:56 GMT -6
Seeing as our CB Room year in year out is the walking woundedβ¦ Iβd like to have 4 if not 5 capable corners. Nothing makes me think B & G are anything more than fillers for camp and maybe ST!
Not to mention there was Nothing about Booth in 22 that should have given anyone confidence he can hold down a starting role β¦even as nickel. I get he may pan out and be greatβ¦ but based on what he showed last year I think you have to go into camps assuming the worst and hoping the kid surprises!
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Post by 1angryviking on Mar 23, 2023 16:16:58 GMT -6
I think the D is in such good shape we should target RB in round 1
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taylorvike
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Post by taylorvike on Mar 23, 2023 18:27:22 GMT -6
I think the D is in such good shape we should target RB in round 1 Knock it off.
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